Some help with a Gibson A3

[Sprrdhawk44]

I recently found out that my Mom still has my Grandmother’s mandolin. My Great-Grandfather had apparently gotten it for my Grandmother when she was a kid, and it’s been with us ever since. My Mom mentioned it to me last night, and told me that I could have it, if I wanted it for decoration or something. She didn’t think it was anything fancy, probably a Sears model or something similar, which was fine, as the sentimental value is certainly there.

Well, I picked it up today, and was surprised to find a Gibson A3 in the original case! The finish has cracked pretty badly, but there doesn’t appear to be any damage to the body or neck, or anything else. Through the little research I’ve done, it appears to have been made in 1922, which was during the “Loar years.” I am a guitar guy, and know next to nothing about mandolins, so I was hoping perhaps someone here could shed some light on this? I’m never going to sell it, for obvious reasons, but what would something like this be valued at?

[William Smith]

Well what is the serial # on the label and there should be a stamped # in ink on the inside neck block called the FON# "Factory Order #" ? Yours has the later straightedge pickguard like a late 23, yours may be one of the last custom ordered "Amana" White tops, yours is all original and looks to be fantastic shape, sought after mandolin for collectors/players alike! Even has the Nickle Truss Rod Cover going through the original inlay as was Gibson style as they used old necks for new mandolins! Value is priceless if kept in your family but value now I would guess at least 4Grand, that's higher end but for a 23, one of the last with that guard style! SWEET!
Do not polish with anything just wipe with a clean soft rag and get it set up and play her!

[Jim Garber]

I agree with most of what William Smith says with the exception of the estimate of value. That value would be closer to an EXC snakehead A2Z in my estimation—much more collectible. I would say about half that maybe a bit more, though also factoring in the condition of the finish which is a bit funky. I would imagine this was not stored under optimal conditions. I would take it to a competent luthier to have it checked out and properly clean it and set it up. Do the frets look in decent shape?

My first Gibson was a whitefaced A-3 from 1919. It was a nice sounding and playing one. This one is especially cool since it is also part of your family history. Congratulations!

[Sprrdhawk44]

Thank you guys, I really appreciate the quick help! The frets do appear to be in good shape, fortunately. I’ll be taking it this weekend to luthier to have it checked out.

The serial number is 70084
The FON is 11578, or possibly 11576

I certainly won’t be selling it, and will pass it down to my children, as well.

[Denny Gies]

Whatever the value, that mandolin is a keeper.

[Ray(T)]

Thank you guys, I really appreciate the quick help! The frets do appear to be in good shape, fortunately. I’ll be taking it this weekend to luthier to have it checked out.

The serial number is 70084
The FON is 11578, or possibly 11576

I certainly won’t be selling it, and will pass it down to my children, as well.

Spann’s guide puts that serial number and both FONs at 1922.

There’s a similar one but with an earlier s/n and no photographs here - http://www.mandolinarchive.com/gibson/serial/68629

[NickR]

Congratulations on "discovering" such a fine instrument in original and good condition. Getting it checked over is a good idea and an expert eye can look at the instrument and see if the top has warped although with any luck it has not- my 1923 A2 is not warped but it does happen. Your mandolin has a truss rod which was patented in early 1923. I am not sure when Gibson began installing them- it was, I assume before the patent was issued- although the year 1923 is always quoted. As has already been mentioned, yours has that nickel cover plate.

You can now look forward to learning some elementary mandolin so you can use the instrument and bring it back to life!

[Timbofood]

That’s such a cool find!
Value for sale, these have been trading (as Jim says) around $2000 +/-
Family value only you can put the price on that. Great great family thing!
I love these old A-3’s!
Love the little gem!

[pops1]

Gibson started installing truss rods in late '21-early '22. My '22 has the same truss rod cover, a great sounding mandolin. The paddle heads from '22 sound every bit as good as the snake's, but with the still wider neck (1 1/4") which is why I wanted that particular year. All the Loar improvements except still has the wider neck and no snake headstock.

[Br1ck]

There are many who love the finish checking, myself included. To receive a family heirloom of that quality is wonderful.

[Jim Garber]

There are many who love the finish checking, myself included. To receive a family heirloom of that quality is wonderful.

I don't love it (especially when the finish starts flaking off) but I do like that it is art of the instrument's history.

[J.Albert]

That A3 has come through the years very well.

From the wear on the back of the neck and edge of the top, it looks like it was well-played but also cared for.

I wouldn't sell it. The "wear" is from your grandmother's touch.

Since you're already a guitar player, it will be easy to pick up some basic stuff with the mandolin, and go on from there.

Have your luthier guy set it up with light strings and a modestly low action...

[Jim Garber]

I don't think he wants to sell it at all. I think he said that a few times already.

[multidon]

I never saw one of these with the truss rod. Funny that when they decided to add it, they made it so that the cover obscures half the inlay, and indeed it appears that the top screw of the cover goes right through the inlay. I’m assuming that the inlays were already done when they decided to add the truss rod?

[rcc56]

Yep. I've seen several like that. Also several F-4's with the truss rod cover obscuring the lower portion of the flower pot.

[fatt-dad]

I love everything about that mandolin! Regarding cleaning the top, don't rule out a rag and some lighter fluid (naptha).

If it is stable and playable, it's likely under $2,500 bucks.

I've had my non-truss-rod 1920 A3 for over 35 years and it's very stable. I play it too!

f-d

[Br1ck]

If your finish is flaking, get someone to French polish the top. I've seen a few Frank Ford has done this to and it preserves the finish nicely.

[mrmando]

I never saw one of these with the truss rod.

Ditto. introduction of the truss rod and subsequent transition to the A2Z must have happened within a very narrow stretch of time.

A3s generally fetch more than lower-numbered A-styles, and can in fact be worth as much as some A4s, simply because of their scarcity. If a truss-rodded A3 (one of the A3's scarcest variants) were in top-notch condition it might be worth nearly $3K; the condition of this one might argue for a somewhat lower value. Anyway, it's worth having it appraised, insured, and set up to play.

If your luthier knows of a way to clean this finish without damaging it, please share it.

[rcc56]

". . . a way to clean this finish without damaging it . . ."

Risky. These finishes are delicate.

First thing I would try is filtered water on a soft rag with a drop of dish detergent, with the grain, discarding the soiled part of the rag as soon as it gets dirty.

Second thing, a little naphtha, same rules for the rag.

Third, rottenstone and light mineral oil. Use a thin solution.

Do NOT use any compounds or swirl removers.

Remove the tailpiece and work there first. If there is any sign of damage at all, cease and desist.

I would avoid French polishing this instrument. If it works, it will de-value the instrument. If it does not and it reacts with the existing finish or accentuates the soiling, it will de-value it more.

There is no telling what finish Gibson used on these ivory topped A-3's. It certainly wasn't their usual varnish.

The serial number and factory order numbers correspond to 1922 using Spann's Guide as a reference.

[MarkELynch]

I never saw one of these with the truss rod. Funny that when they decided to add it, they made it so that the cover obscures half the inlay, and indeed it appears that the top screw of the cover goes right through the inlay. I’m assuming that the inlays were already done when they decided to add the truss rod?

As others have said a whiteface A3 with trussrod is fairly uncommon. Here are a couple in the collection where the cover partly obscures to inlay. A late 1922 F4 mandolin and a 1923 L3 guitar. Sorry upload of L3 is not working.

[Sprrdhawk44]

Thank you all very much for the help! I took it to my luthier on Saturday, and he’s going to fix it up. I didn’t know this when I first posted this thread, but my local luthier, Lou Stiver, is actually fairly well known in the mandolin world from what I’ve now gathered. He’s a very nice guy, and extremely knowledgeable. I trust it being in his hands. Thanks again, everyone!

[Jim Garber]

That is great. Lou is indeed well-known and respected. Your family heirloom is in good hands.

[Timbofood]

That’s nice to hear, it will be well taken care of, Mr. Stiver knows how to keep things in good musical health!

[fatt-dad]

Lou's great! He knows his way around a mandolin!

f-d