Pick ups ?

[marticus]

Hi there,

Don't post much as I don't know much!

Just wondered what the best way to amplify an acoustic mandolin would be for acoustic/folk rock in (loud-ish) environments.

I have an Eastman md405, but I have no idea how to amplify it without wrecking it!

Any tips would be much appreciated, pick ups etc.

Also, would a local guitar luthier be the right person to any mods?
Thanks in advance,

Mart

[chuck3]

K&K twin internal pickup with the jack in the strap button. I have done several that way with my local luthier doing the work. Play in all kinds of bands with it. You'll want a preamp too, though. Lots of choices there.

[marticus]

Thanks for that.
Can you recommend a pre amp to go with it?
Is that because of a feed back issue?

[Dave Martin]

Take a look at JJB Electronics pickups. I use and like quite a bit, and have gotten some pretty nice comments on tone.

[Br1ck]

Devise 101

The most important function is the need for a DI with a 1 meg ohm input impedance and a 800 ohm output impedance to match the 800 ohm most mixing boards need. This smooths the frequency response most piezo pickups need. Easy answer, makes it sound better.

Now virtually every pre amp for acoustic amps has this feature, plus whatever bells and whistles a manufacturer can sell you on needing. A gain stage is in all of them, some have multiple EQ ranges, phase switches, boost switches, notch filters a a hundred FX sounds.

I put my money into high quality, simple, well designed devices like the venerable RedEye, and more recently the better to me sounding SunnAudio Stage 1 DI. The Baggs PARA DI is an old favorite of many. ToneDexter is the new digital wonder box. Literally scores of acoustic products out there.

Then to be confusing, acoustic amps do this and most have the ability to send output to a mixing board.

[chuck3]

Thanks for that.
Can you recommend a pre amp to go with it?
Is that because of a feed back issue?

I use the Radial PZ-Pre, for upright bass as well, but you can find less expensive models. As the poster above indicated, it's mainly to match up impedances. But most have other good features as well. You want one that has both an XLR and a 1/4-inch out so that you can go into either of a mixer or an amp.

[Br1ck]

You really only need a simple DI. Beware that not all DIs have a 1 meg ohm input impedance because other instruments such as keyboards don't need this. You can get a good DI for less than a hundred bucks. That said, I wouldn't go this route. You are going to play in a loud group and you'll want a volume boost for solos., hence the popularity of the RedEye.

What I would caution against is a $69 pre that has a kitchen sink of features. $69 won't buy a quality AD/DA converter, much less good pots, switches, plugs, etc. Yes, they work.

My feeling about EQ is the more you have the greater your ability to ruin your tone LOL.

[Mandobart]

I've installed the JJB PPS 200 in quite a few of my own and my friend's instruments: two mandolins, a resonator mandolin, a banjolin, 2 violins, 2 violas, a mandola, 2 octave mandolins, 4 guitars, a banjo, a mandocello and an upright bass. It has worked well in all these applications.

For preamps I've used the Behringer ADI21, K & K Pure and RedEye. When I play through an acoustic amp with a high impedance (HI Z) input a preamp isn't necessary.

[Charlie Bernstein]

K&K twin internal pickup with the jack in the strap button. I have done several that way with my local luthier doing the work. Play in all kinds of bands with it. You'll want a preamp too, though. Lots of choices there.

That's what I have, and it works great.

K&K Twin also has a version with an external jack. It isn't as pretty as their endpin jack, but it can go from one mandolin to another. If you think you might get another mando someday, it'll save you some money.

My preamp is a Fire-Eye Red-Eye. Lots of folks here recommended it when I asked, and I do like it a lot.

[Charlie Bernstein]

. . . My feeling about EQ is the more you have the greater your ability to ruin your tone LOL.

So true! I've been using EQ pedals lately though. Switching between four instruments becomes a PA nightmare. So now I'm setting the PA to just agree with my dread and using EQ pedals on mando, squareneck reso, and roundneck reso, and.

It makes switch hitting a lot easier.

[kurth83]

Digital EQ with presets... Funny though, I once started a gig on bass with the mando preset, took me about a minute to figure it out during the sound check. My mando preset has a low cut at 200 hz, the poor bass wasn't sounding good all. :-)

More to the ops question though, I thought most people around here use mics, I am a pickup guy myself. Once I got into pedals, I had to learn about impedance matching and the difference between a poor preamp and a good one. Mostly trial and error on the preamp thing, buy more expensive until it sounds good. :-)

My Zoom pedals for example have crummy built-in preamps (hissy if you turn up the gain), but front-end them with a good one (if I need gain) and they can do great things. Currently using an MXR boost pedal for that, only the mando needs a lot of boost.

K&K twin has a good rep around here, professional installation recommended, local luthier or tech is fine.

[DHopkins]

I have K&K in one of my Breedloves and I use a RedEye preamp.

[Dave Sheets]

Another vote in favor of the K&K twin. I use both the Radial PZ pre-amp and a Boss AD-10 at different times.

The AD-10 has a tuner, and a lot of electronic effects in it, which you don't need for straight up acoustic style playing, but which are handy with a rock band.

[Matt DeBlass]

Yet another vote for the K&K Mandolin Twin. I've got mine mounted internally and usually run it through a Fishman GII (which I don't think is available anymore) but most quality pre-amps will work just fine with it.
It's actually got enough oomph and sounds good enough to run directly into the board, which I sometimes do if I'm only playing two or three songs at an open mic, but it does sound much better with the impedance matching and a bit of eq, which I do for actual shows.
Before that I used a Baggs Radius, which also sounded pretty good, and came with a pretty tidy external mount setup. I like the sound from the K&K a bit better, but that's pretty subjective and not a big difference, both are good.

[marticus]

Thanks for all the replies, looks like I'll be checking out the K&K, but some of the other technical jargon went over my head!

[DHopkins]

...but some of the other technical jargon went over my head!

Don't worry about that right now. At this stage, you need to know whether what you select is suitable for the instrument you have and will produce a sound you like.

Having said that, as you progress, you should learn the "other technical jargon" because it will give you a better understanding of the equipment and how it can augment and/or change the sound. Additionally, that understanding will carry over to other aspects of other instruments and equipment. ♫

[Br1ck]

OK, simplified jargon. Have pickups installed. Buy the best pre amp you can. Minimum, Baggs PARA DI. A little more money a RedEye or Sunnaudio Stage 1 DI.

Mandolin- K&Ks- pre amp = Happy camper

Mandolin-K&Ks- no pre amp= thin harsh tone

[pops1]

I would prefer the K&K preamp to the Baggs, easier to use and I think sounds better. I have had both. That being said I use the RedEye.

[DHopkins]

I would prefer the K&K preamp to the Baggs, easier to use and I think sounds better. I have had both. That being said I use the RedEye.

Ditto all the way. In addition, the RedEye has phantom power capability.

[DHopkins]

I would prefer the K&K preamp to the Baggs, easier to use and I think sounds better. I have had both. That being said I use the RedEye.

Ditto all the way. In addition, the RedEye has phantom power capability. ♫

[illinoisfiddler]

If you have a loud environment, I would just go ahead and get the Fishman M300 Nashville bridge pickup with the Carpenter jack. No modification to your instrument, apart from fitting the new bridge, and you can keep your old one. Plug it into a good preamp/DI and you are good to go. I already went through the Baggs Radius and the K&K Twin Hybrid, and this one was better than both of them. The K&K would be my second choice for quieter environments, but it still is feedback prone. The Fishman M300 beat all them out but is a little pricey.

[Ray(T)]

Nobody seems to have mentioned/asked what you intend to plug the mandolin into. Your options can change depending whether you are going into a stage amp or a mixing desk (board).

[Br1ck]

I had a friend who had a floating magnetic pickup when he played with a very loud band. The whole thing depends on how much you want to sound like a mandolin. There are many ways to go down this sinkhole. An under saddle pickup could sound very good through a tonedexter.

[pops1]

Years ago I also did a floating magnetic pickup for a mandolin. Sounded surprisingly like a mandolin. Someone fell in love with it and I sold it. Oh well.

[illinoisfiddler]

The Fishman Nashville M300 bridge pickup sounds every bit as good as the K&K twin, but with a heck of a lot more output and a lot less phasing. I like the K&K, but in loud environments, had nothing but problems with feedback even through a very good preamp like the Red Eye. It's a good pickup to replace a mic in quieter settings like folk or bluegrass, but if you are playing with a drummer and electric instruments I would say forget it. Once I got the Fishman installed, I have not looked back.