A mandolin/violin relative price story

[Paul Busman]

Hah! You are joking, right? By the same token a mandolin is just a roundish box with metal strings run across the top. And a flute is just a pipe top blow air in.
.

I was indeed partially joking,which is why I put the word "just" in quotation marks. I was oversimplifying intentionally. I know that there's lot more to a bow than "just" a bundle of horsehair, but didn't know exactly why.

[mandroid]

Stradivarius violins and cellos , go for millions ...

[Jim Garber]

Stradivarius violins and cellos , go for millions ...

Also, the violas, too. And the guitars (I think there are only five and only one that is playable - see below) and mandolins (only two). Mandolin in SD. Mandolin in UK.

[Northwest Steve]

My daughter plays Violin/Fiddle. So have bought a few instruments and bows for her. I am somewhat of a wheeler dealer and can usually find a good deal if I have time to look. I am generally a quick study but I have never has a harder time figuring out prices for something than violins.

[catndahats]

just a follow-up:
We did go to the local violin shop yesterday and found my wife a beginner violin set that was affordable. Wife had no idea that she was about to get an early birthday surprise.

The shop is Duckworth Violin in New Braunfels, TX. Gotta say, that is one cool tiny shop. It was a great experience actually----very tidy small shop on the square downtown like you would imagine was typical a hundred years ago---fiddles, basses, a few mandolins and guitars tucked everywhere.

The owner helped us, turns out he was / is Robert Earl Keen's long time friend and fiddle player. Very interesting and patient with us....told him we know nothing about fiddles, he hands my wife an instrument sitting out on the table and a bow and says, "Don't drop it---that bow is $2500." She quickly sat it down gently on the table.Told him we were looking for a beginner set up and brought out some to show us. Imports the bodies and sets them up himself...just a very cool experience, gave us a ton of tips, made for a big surprise---and one very happy wife!
Doesn't get better than that!

[Jim Garber]

These days there are some excellent Chinese and other Asian violins. The key is to do what you did and buy from a reputable shop where you have some recourse if there are problems. You can get super deals on eBay but you can also get stuck with nice looking but horribly sounding violins.

[catndahats]

so true. Learned this with mandolins and guitars---set up is key to getting off to a good start.

When at the violin shop, there was a "nice looking" violin setting out on the table. The owner showed it to us explaining someone just brought it in trying to get it fixed....the neck was plastic, bought online. Any repair would cost more than it was worth---neck flexed like a spaghetti noodle. They left it and said to just give it away.

These days there are some excellent Chinese and other Asian violins. The key is to do what you did and buy from a reputable shop where you have some recourse if there are problems. You can get super deals on eBay but you can also get stuck with nice looking but horribly sounding violins.

[Northwest Steve]

just a follow-up:
The owner helped us, turns out he was / is Robert Earl Keen's long time friend and fiddle player. Very interesting and patient with us....told him we know nothing about fiddles, he hands my wife an instrument sitting out on the table and a bow and says, "Don't drop it---that bow is $2500." She quickly sat it down gently on the table.Told him we were looking for a beginner set up and brought out some to show us. Imports the bodies and sets them up himself...just a very cool experience, gave us a ton of tips, made for a big surprise---and one very happy wife!
Doesn't get better than that!

Nice that you have a good local shop and someone knowledgeable. We have a very good local luthier that specializes in violins. I was there with my daughter getting a new bridge and set-up. She has a Maggini copy that is a very nice violin. He hands here another Maggini and lets her play it. He mentioned what it was worth and she did not catch it. When we got outside I asked if she knew what she had just played. She did not and was shocked when I told her it was a $25k violin...….She did not seem to think it was 10 times better than hers luckily.

[Stephen Perry]

Setup is so much. I like making my slightly fat soundposts like this: https://trianglestrings.com/soundpost/
Peg fitting isn't a thing to ignore https://trianglestrings.com/fittingpegs/
A real bridge takes a goodly amount of time. This is my general approach now: https://trianglestrings.com/carving-a-violin-bridge/

Add in planning the fingerboard, getting the neck shape right, and adjusting/voicing, and there's 4 hours in a setup pretty quickly. How can that be done on a $350 instrument? I haven't found a way!

[Brian B]

According to Michael Dregni, in his book about Django and the Hot Club, Stephane Grapelli bought only the cheapest violins he could find.

[pheffernan]

My daughter plays Violin/Fiddle. So have bought a few instruments and bows for her. I am somewhat of a wheeler dealer and can usually find a good deal if I have time to look. I am generally a quick study but I have never has a harder time figuring out prices for something than violins.

As a thought exercise, what would be the mandolin equivalent of this fiddle? Does it qualify as a good deal or at the very least good value?

https://reverb.com/item/19200098-bob...dle-ramona-120

[allenhopkins]

Well, here's a comment on violin pricing, quoted from Myra Brooks Welch's poem:

'Twas battered and scarred, and the auctioneer
Thought it scarcely worth his while
To waste much time on the old violin,
But held it up with a smile.
"What am I bidden, good folks," he cried,
"Who'll start the bidding for me?"
"A dollar, a dollar. Then two! Only two?
Two dollars, and who'll make it three?"

"Three dollars, once; three dollars, twice;
Going for three…" But no,
From the room, far back, a grey-haired man
Came forward and picked up the bow;
Then wiping the dust from the old violin,
And tightening the loosened strings,
He played a melody pure and sweet,
As a caroling angel sings.

The music ceased, and the auctioneer,
With a voice that was quiet and low,
Said: "What am I bid for the old violin?"
And he held it up with the bow.
"A thousand dollars, and who'll make it two?
Two thousand! And who'll make it three?
Three thousand, once; three thousand, twice,
And going and gone," said he.

The people cheered, but some of them cried,
"We do not quite understand.
What changed its worth?" Swift came the reply:
"The touch of the Master's hand."

[ThorneSwift]

Hi All, I bought my violin from Shar which is nice because they are so good about sending out instruments in groups so one can try them out. I played a number of violins in a wide price range, and my favorite wasn't at the top of the price list. The "bargain" Carlo Lamberti Master Series priced at the time, $1,750 was to my ears the best. Adding my personal favorite strings which definitely are more expensive than mandolin strings adds to it. Eat your hearts out in this next part. About 30 years ago I bought a junk violin and bow at an antiques shop. The violin was a bad German student violin from the 1800's that was in pieces, but the bow was made by W.E. Hill. I do have a modern made bow that set me back about 600 large, but that Hill bow that I paid almost nothing for is by far the finest bow I've ever touched.

[Jim Garber]

As a thought exercise, what would be the mandolin equivalent of this fiddle? Does it qualify as a good deal or at the very least good value?

https://reverb.com/item/19200098-bob...dle-ramona-120

Apples vs. oranges. Certainly you can't compare a fiddle to a mandolin. Are you asking what you could get in a mandolin that cost $4000? Of course, you are also hearing on this video Bob Kogut (I assume it is him) and his expertise at getting excellent sound from that violin. It sounds goot to me and would certainly want to try some of his instruments. And from the sound I hear that doesn't seem to be an unreasonable price for that.

As to equivalent mandolins: I haven't a clue. I have played some $3000 mandolins that sounded great and own one that cost me almost $4000 that I love.

[pheffernan]

Apples vs. oranges. Certainly you can't compare a fiddle to a mandolin. Are you asking what you could get in a mandolin that cost $4000? Of course, you are also hearing on this video Bob Kogut (I assume it is him) and his expertise at getting excellent sound from that violin. It sounds goot to me and would certainly want to try some of his instruments. And from the sound I hear that doesn't seem to be an unreasonable price for that.

Thanks for answering my query Jim, even if I didn’t articulate it as clearly as I might have done. There is a saw around here that one should expect to pay twice as much for an archtop mandolin as one would for an equivalent flattop guitar. While they are undoubtedly apples and oranges, I was wondering if there were some such equivalence when considering fiddles. I feel like I have a pretty good handle on what $4000 can command on the mandolin market currently. I would expect a used A5 from an established, reputable builder like Will Kimble, Paul Duff, or Tom Ellis. I feel far less certain about the fiddle market, however, and as this Kogut fiddle caught my eye, I thought I’d use it to try to improve my understanding. Thanks for adding to my store of knowledge.

Patrick

[Jim Garber]

Ah, I get it (I think). If I am not mistaken, Bob Kogut aims his market at fiddle players who generally would spend less than classical; folks. I know a few current makers and that price for a quality handmade violin I guess would be more like for someone who is relatively new at building. One guy I know has been building violins for a number of years but i think he gets at least $10,000 for one.

[Gary Leonard]

Anyone else see the video posted about the Berline's Fiddle Shop fire? Opening his safe and finding his Loar unscathed in it's Carlton case?

He pulls out three long, thin cases as well as the mandolin case. The three what I assume are bow cases are quickly handed to someone out of camera view. I wonder what condition they were in, and even if they were bows. They had to be pretty valuable if that was the first thing he went for.

Sad to see the roasted, uncased violins in that safe.