Carters and Gruhns...visit yesterday

[mtucker]

Today, the customer may not have the pocket depth for a big purchase but, from the selling side of the counter, they might another time.

I think you nailed it and would add just one thing... If you're worth your salt you've learned that you can't ever judge a book by the cover, so why have a pre-determined notion of someone's means. Far too many sales people do and it's a total turnoff to most customers regardless of status. Everyone gets treated with kindness and respect in this world, that's a winning strategy.

[Timbofood]

Thanks,
True story, youngish woman comes through my fine jewelry department in a (now defunct) high end regional department store. She had been at the gym, I’d just finished setting the department and she laughingly says as she walks past “I bet you don’t have anything that would make me look good in this!” I just said “Just a minute.” Went to the case and got out a very nice necklace and put it on her. She giggled and thanked me for my time.
An hour later the phone rings, her husband “Are you the guy that put a necklace on my wife this morning?”
“Yes, sir.”
“Would you be kind enough to wrap that up? I’m in court today and will be short on time at lunch.”
“My pleasure, sir!”
I worked with him for ten years after that.

I have never had the ability to see what is in ANYONE’S bank account other than my own. I’ve learned not to try, let someone who does not have the money have a few minutes of fun, lay groundwork for future clients.
I have lots of that kind of story
Like the guy who sold the design for the headlight actuator to Mercedes-Benz who came in wearing a pair of bib overalls...
Never pre judge anyone who walks through the door. It will bite you in the end.

As for the generous invitation to visit your location Mr. Ellis, I have family in Austin and just might take you up on that! Thank you very much!

[re simmers]

Never been to Cottons. Is it in Nashville?

I drove to Baltimore Bluegrass in 1992, intent on buying a new Flatiron A model for around $800. Just before paying I asked if I could play the “showcase” Flatiron F and the Gibson F, $2,000 and $3,000. Both were signed by Bruce Weber. I told Steve, the owner I could not buy either one. No problem. I played the Flatiron F for an hour, then called my wife and begged to buy it. I bought it, and I sent a lot of customers his way. (Unfortunately they closed)

After 20 years I sold the Flatiron and bought THE Buckeye. Then we visited Gruhn’s and I played a Derrington MM. I told George I have a Buckeye, and I did not have $12,000 to buy a mandolin. He got it down, and wow! Someday I will buy one, and it will be from Gruhn’s. He also brought out several Loars and a Gil. AND......I tell everyone about my experience at Gruhn’s.

It’s a good experience for everyone involved.

Bob

[chuxster]

What a great thread. I was in Nashville last summer but poor planning on my part meant I missed Carters, Gruhn's and Cottons. Next time!!
RE: playing nice instruments in stores -- The other side of the coin is pretty real, at least for me. Last fall I went in to an acoustic music instrument store and looked at a number of incredibly nice guitars and mando's hanging on the wall. After getting a feel for what they had, I asked to try the Northfield GBOM hanging on the wall. The guy said no, that they'd had it a while and it had had so much tire-kicking, he'd had to change the strings. So I left and haven't been back. I'm still looking and closing in a purchase but it won't be his store.

[Timbofood]

Been there too chuxster!
Local store, been around for decades. As to take a look at the Washburn two point on the wall, lousy strings, not been tuned in weeks or longer, I finally get it almost playable and swat a couple of chords and the yutz comes over and says “ Isn’t that about enough!?”
I stand up, and him the mandolin and say,”Well, I guess so!” And walk out.
The store went belly up a few months later. Don Dillons was the actual name of the place, you can imagine what it was nicknamed.
It’s now a cheesy pawn shop.
Service is what keeps people coming back, bad service is what people talk about for decades.

[Hendrik Ahrend]

Never been to Cottons. Is it in Nashville?

I drove to Baltimore Bluegrass in 1992, intent on buying a new Flatiron A model for around $800. Just before paying I asked if I could play the “showcase” Flatiron F and the Gibson F, $2,000 and $3,000. Both were signed by Bruce Weber. I told Steve, the owner I could not buy either one. No problem. I played the Flatiron F for an hour, then called my wife and begged to buy it. I bought it, and I sent a lot of customers his way. (Unfortunately they closed)

After 20 years I sold the Flatiron and bought THE Buckeye. Then we visited Gruhn’s and I played a Derrington MM. I told George I have a Buckeye, and I did not have $12,000 to buy a mandolin. He got it down, and wow! Someday I will buy one, and it will be from Gruhn’s. He also brought out several Loars and a Gil. AND......I tell everyone about my experience at Gruhn’s.

It’s a good experience for everyone involved.

Bob

Hey Bob, you just brought up fond memories of my time in Baltimore between September '92 and June '93. Anyhow, I went to Baltimore Bluegrass a couple times, and Steve didn't seem too friendly with the German tire kicker. I checked out both that Flatiron and the Gibson F5, which was set in a display case. I actually believe, it was signed by Carlson; a really fine mandolin. When a friend from Germany came over for a visit in September '92, I pointed him towards that F5 and he ended up buying it (and he still has it). When I came back again later, Steve was way more friendly and even apologized for being "a bit grouchy" at first, as he himself put it; fine fellow.

[Br1ck]

Don't get me wrong regarding the Steinways bought for children. The children were incredible musicians who were both great violinists and pianists. Never underestimate the expectations of the Tiger mom.

[CES]

I took a Saturday a few years ago now and spent time at Carter's and Gruhn's, and it was a valuable education. I left very happy with my Silverangel Econo, but also with an idea of what my next step needed to have to make it worth it. It was the weekend of Gruhn's grand re-opening, so they were crazy busy, and I didn't ask to go upstairs because I had my sights set on a resonator. Even so, one of their guys found time to let me try the Giacomel...which still haunts me a little today. Maybe when I get the kids out of college...

I can see how tire kicking could be annoying in a small shop where the salesperson is also doing repairs, set-ups, etc, and do think that discretion should be utilized. When I'm in my local store and the owner is swamped with repairs, I don't bug him unless I know I'm buying something. But, in a place like Carter's, Gruhn's. Lowe Vintage, etc, where they invite you to play everything, why not? The last time I was at Lowe Vintage Ed handed me the Loar without my even asking, and, yes, I played it.

During the Nashville trip I also went out to Artisan Guitar in Franklin, because they had the only 2 RM-1s in town at the time. They were closed setting up for a Santa Cruz work shop, but when I told Ellie I had driven from NC to try these mandolins, they let me in and set me up in the chair of honor (which meant I was out of the way ). I played them both for a couple of minutes and bought the Walnut one. In the rush of the situation she accidentally charged me the maple price, which she discovered later. I was more than happy to split the difference with them when they contacted me the following Monday (which was their suggestion, as I'd have paid the full difference if they'd asked), not only because I'm honest, but also because I appreciated them going out of their way to let me try them out. I'll definitely visit them again the next time I'm out there.

[Jim Garber]

Never been to Cottons. Is it in Nashville?

Proper spelling is Cotten Music and yes, in Nashville. They always seem to have at least one of Will Kimble's beauties and they also have a Nugget A-5 right now. They post photos on their Facebook page.

[re simmers]

Henry,
At Baltimore bluegrass Steve was sometimes busy with repair work, making it difficult to watch pickers in that sound room to the right. He did remind me to make sure my fingernails didn’t scratch the face because the next picker will want $100 off.
That was a fantastic store. It’s a shame it closed. I assume internet competition hurt the business.
Bob

[seththedude]

Need to make a trip to Nashville to check out the music shops.

Living in a small town our music shop options are limited and I often look forward to trips to the city to visit larger one. I am in the market for a new guitar (Martin 00- or D18 type) and you never know when MAS hits. I have had two unfortunate encounters with music shops that have apparently not wanted my business.

1. Last summer I was in Portland, OR and went to one of my favorite shops there that stocks primarily used instruments. I have bought a few instruments there; Taylor guitar, Epiphone Mandobird IV, old Silvertone archtop, many odds and ends. I was looking to purchase a new pickup for my acoustic guitar. It was under glass in the acoustic guitar room. Many people were browsing and trying out various instruments and they were a little busy. While waiting, I picked up a nice Taylor guitar that caught my ear with a reasonable price tag. Soon an employee asked if I needed anything and I told him I wanted to purchase the pickup from the display case. He got it and took it to the counter until I was finished. I continued to browse debating if I needed to purchase the Taylor I had played earlier. The shop emptied quickly and soon the employees were behind the counter chatting about the small rush they had just had. The employee who had helped me was complaining that I took him away from a sale to get the pickup. I thought, "Well, now I am definitely not buying the Taylor." I went over to checkout and held my tongue about overhearing them complain about the helping a customer, me. I now have mixed thoughts about continuing to support them in the future, as they have a fun selection and fair prices.

2. Last weekend I was in Eugene, OR and was looking for a Manhassett music stand, preferably used but I would take a new one. I stopped by a used music store at 4:45pm thinking I would have time to quickly browse and grab a stand if they had one before they closed at 5pm. We pull into the parking lot and the signs are off but employees came to the door to let me in. He said the were closing early because they were slow. I asked about the Manhassett and they had it in stock. He said he could do it if I would be quick. I told him I was also in the market for a guitar (they have many). They didn't have time for me to see if they had anything. I said "Well, I guess you don't have time for my business" and we left. I understand closing early if slow but it should be posted. If you say open til 5, stay open until 5.

[Folkmusician.com]

Seth,

Both of these situations are inexcusable... A perfect example of bad business... I do think it is important to differentiate between management and random employees... It is entirely possible that the owner has no idea that customers are being mistreated and would step in if they were aware. In this case, I am sure they would appreciate you letting them know. If it is the owner or a manager, well, no exuse then!

[rcc56]

Sometimes the fellow with the worn out jeans and t-shirt is the guy who is looking for the right vintage Gibson or Martin instrument and has the cash in his pocket to pay for it.

I chewed out an employee at my local shop because he ignored one of my students. When the employee chirped, I informed him that my student was capable of buying the whole shop if he wanted to.

[Hendrik Ahrend]

Henry,
At Baltimore bluegrass Steve was sometimes busy with repair work, making it difficult to watch pickers in that sound room to the right. He did remind me to make sure my fingernails didn’t scratch the face because the next picker will want $100 off.
That was a fantastic store. It’s a shame it closed. I assume internet competition hurt the business.
Bob

Absolutely, thanks for bringing that up.
Hendrik

[DocT]

for a slightly different perspective, I MOST CERTAINLY want you to try out anything from my shop

Dreaming of owning one of your mandolins one day.

[Relio]

Well first, let me say I’m NOT trying to pick a fight. Truly. I know there are many who will disagree with this. But personally, I don’t think it’s quite right to go into a shop, take up store employee’s time, spend the day, playing everything in the store (putting unnecessary additional play wear on the entire inventory) when you are NOT in the market for a new instrument. What is the purpose here? Free entertainment? Self-education? If the OP had at the very minimum said that there was at least a chance, albeit ever so small, that he might have played SOMETHING that he couldn’t walk away from, that might make me feel a bit better about this process.

This is just my opinion. YMMV. I couldn’t do it. I mean, I’d certainly go in and look, but I wouldn’t make employees take them down from the wall for me to play unless I had a serious interest. Phase don’t flame me! I’m willing to bet dollars to donuts I’m in the minority here.

I did the exact same thing a few years ago. I was not in the market for a mandolin but played every mandolin in Nashville - I ended up buying a Kimble F5 from Cotton Music a few months later!

[Mandobar]

You might be shocked at how low pricing on high end pianos has dipped. There’s just no market for them.

[Br1ck]

I keep bringing up Gryphon because that is what I know. I've run into countless folks, many retired, wanting to buy a guitar and being clueless. They get ignored in the typical guitar center. I send them to Gryphon. I tell them if they have $500 to spend, go in, explain they are new, and the staff will take care of them. I've heard them tell folks they have guitars to rent if they don't want to commit. Rent goes toward purchase. A good business want your business over the long haul and acts accordingly.

I've seen folks go in to buy a cheaper guitar, then ask what more money would buy, get shown a nice Eastman,which they gladly played for them, then could I see a Martin, which they walked out with. Now Gryphon wants to sell you a 3k guitar, but they are happy for you to take ten years to work up to it. They also realize that 6 year old could someday be famous, like Molly Tuttle, whose dad has taught at Gryphon for decades.

[seththedude]

Seth,

Both of these situations are inexcusable... A perfect example of bad business... I do think it is important to differentiate between management and random employees... It is entirely possible that the owner has no idea that customers are being mistreated and would step in if they were aware. In this case, I am sure they would appreciate you letting them know. If it is the owner or a manager, well, no exuse then!

Robert, I agree, bad business practice. Both instances seemed to be random employees. My wife mentioned that an owner would be much friendlier.

Sometimes the fellow with the worn out jeans and t-shirt is the guy who is looking for the right vintage Gibson or Martin instrument and has the cash in his pocket to pay for it.

I chewed out an employee at my local shop because he ignored one of my students. When the employee chirped, I informed him that my student was capable of buying the whole shop if he wanted to.

This might have been part of the issue. I am often rather "scruffy looking" as my wife and kids say. I don't have the scrach to buy a store, but am always ready to purchase a nice mandolin or guitar if I find the one.

[dlp]

I keep bringing up Gryphon because that is what I know. I've run into countless folks, many retired, wanting to buy a guitar and being clueless. They get ignored in the typical guitar center. I send them to Gryphon. I tell them if they have $500 to spend, go in, explain they are new, and the staff will take care of them. I've heard them tell folks they have guitars to rent if they don't want to commit. Rent goes toward purchase. A good business want your business over the long haul and acts accordingly.

Oh man, I was driving through the area this past summer and had an AMAZING time at Gryphon. I told them that I was just driving through and wanted to pop in and see what's up..... an older gentleman (sorry, bad with names) took me around, showed me the repair shop, talked my ear off, then set me up in the quiet room with an all-original '45 D-28. I probably spent two hours just hanging out, A/Bing mandos with the new baked MTs, and they were all so happy to chat and talk instruments. I had absolutely no money to spend, and probably looked it, too.

One of my favorite shops I've ever stopped in at.

[Br1ck]

If he showed you the repair department, it might have been Frank Ford himself.

[ollaimh]

years ago , when i found my favourite snakehead i wanted to know more about it and phone gruhns. they put me right through to george himslef, which i didn't expect, and spent over and hour, maybe two looking up all the specs, discussing the history and i played him a few scottish(cape breton tunes). i found him very generous with his time and knowledge.

now i want to know more about old wave mandolins.

[Timbofood]

I had a call once from a guy who was getting set up for the gig and he needed mandolin strings, we were literally locking the doors but, I took the call and simply delivered the strings to the guy in the band at the club, he just about fell over with thanks!
Later, several people that had been at the club came in and told me that the guy was singing the praises of the store and they bought instruments!
“Good service is all you can give, there is always someone who will sell it cheaper.” - Nikolaas Piket.

Best boss I ever had! (Different Store than the music store, many years later)

[Br1ck]

Another variant: Service, quality, price. You can have any two.

[EvanElk]

Another variant: Service, quality, price. You can have any two.

I'll give a thumbs up to Cotten Music where I think you get all three. Kim Sherman is awesome to deal with there