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Thread: Carters and Gruhns...visit yesterday

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    Default Carters and Gruhns...visit yesterday

    Howdy folks...spent all day at Carters and Gruhns yesterday. Cotten today. Mandolin tasting. I played almost everything in inventory, including three Loars( non Virzi) and a ‘31 Fern. Here are my thoughts and opinions. I am posting for any pickers in the market out there. I have no financial interest in any of these mandolins for the record. In my opinion, the best mandolin For sale right now in Nashville is the Nugget A style at Cotton music. 1982 and serial number 72 I believe. This mandolin is out of this world good. One of the best mandolins I have ever played. I do have to say that it is a little unusual, with a Fir top and a Rosewood fretboard and bridge. I am not in the market for a new mandolin, that’s why I did not buy it. If you can get past the unusual fretboard and woods this mandolin is absolutely killer. The runner ups...the Heiden F5 mandolin at Carter’s and the Varnish Bush(‘04 I think) at Gruhns. Both are out of this world good. The top of the Heiden definitely has some bumps and bruises, just an FYI. Moving along, the Old Wave A style at Carters takes the ‘best value’ prize.
    I play a Duff F5 now, and it’s right there with any Loar I’ve ever played, except for Mr. Reishmans. It was so validating to me to play all these wonderful instruments, and that I come back to a 2017 Duff that has ended my search. Hope this helps someone out there looking. Finally, I have to sing the mighty high praises of Collings MTs, MFs and Pava mandolins. For a few thousand dollars, and if you find an exceptional one....they hang (almost) right there with the big boys and girls, IMO. I almost never post or read the Forum...so I won’t be answering any questions. Off to the Station Inn for Rob Ickes and TH. Happy Picking!!!
    Last edited by little wolf; Feb-14-2019 at 11:26pm. Reason: Spelling

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    not a donut Kevin Winn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carters and Gruhns...visit yesterday

    So here's a question (obviously not for little wolf, as he/she has apparently "Left The Building!"... yeesh...)

    Having never been to a shop like Carter or Gruhn's, can just about anyone walk in and play a $150K Loar? Or even a $10K Heiden?

    Honest question. If so, I'll be planning a long weekend in Nashville sometime to do just that.

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    Default Re: Carters and Gruhns...visit yesterday

    I did almost the exact same thing back in September. George probably handed you the same 3 Loars he handed me, LOL! I didn't do Cotten (maybe next time ), but I probably did play that same Oldwave A... if I had had the money in September, I might have walked out with that one!

    Good read, and thanks for sharing!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Winn View Post
    So here's a question (obviously not for little wolf, as he/she has apparently "Left The Building!"... yeesh...)

    Having never been to a shop like Carter or Gruhn's, can just about anyone walk in and play a $150K Loar? Or even a $10K Heiden?

    Honest question. If so, I'll be planning a long weekend in Nashville sometime to do just that.
    I didn't see the hidey hole for the more expensive instruments at Carter's but at Gruhn's you have to ask if anyone is available to take you up to the second floor which requires being taken through a security door, and if you go up there, you will likely hang out with George Gruhn himself.... very interesting guy for sure!
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    Default Re: Carters and Gruhns...visit yesterday

    I had a feeling from the pics that the Heiden would be fantastic.

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    Registered User Gary Alter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carters and Gruhns...visit yesterday

    Whenever I've been to Nashville and visited Carters, Gruhns or Cotten I was always generously welcomed to play any instrument I wanted including the Loars. At Gruhn you do have to ask and be escorted to the high end area as Soliver said but again I was always able to play whatever I had interest in. At Carters the Loars and other high end mandolins (Gils, Nuggets, Heidens, etc.) are in a separate room with the Loars being in display cabinets. You can pick up any of the high end mandolins you want to play but do have to ask in order to check out the Loars.

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    Registered User William Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carters and Gruhns...visit yesterday

    Well I bet that was a serious good bit of fun! I'd love to make my rounds at them shops!

    How was that 31 F-5 at Gruhn's? That looks like a nice one, a bit pricey though.

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    Default Re: Carters and Gruhns...visit yesterday

    Well first, let me say I’m NOT trying to pick a fight. Truly. I know there are many who will disagree with this. But personally, I don’t think it’s quite right to go into a shop, take up store employee’s time, spend the day, playing everything in the store (putting unnecessary additional play wear on the entire inventory) when you are NOT in the market for a new instrument. What is the purpose here? Free entertainment? Self-education? If the OP had at the very minimum said that there was at least a chance, albeit ever so small, that he might have played SOMETHING that he couldn’t walk away from, that might make me feel a bit better about this process.

    This is just my opinion. YMMV. I couldn’t do it. I mean, I’d certainly go in and look, but I wouldn’t make employees take them down from the wall for me to play unless I had a serious interest. Phase don’t flame me! I’m willing to bet dollars to donuts I’m in the minority here.
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    formerly Philphool Phil Goodson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carters and Gruhns...visit yesterday

    Quote Originally Posted by multidon View Post
    ...
    This is just my opinion. YMMV. I couldn’t do it. I mean, I’d certainly go in and look, but I wouldn’t make employees take them down from the wall for me to play unless I had a serious interest. Phase don’t flame me! I’m willing to bet dollars to donuts I’m in the minority here.
    Well, if it makes you feel a little better, you don't need to bother the employees to play most of the instruments on the wall at Carter's or Gruhn's unless you're wanting to play Loars.

    Last time I was at Carter's I played lots of mandolins, compared them to mine (which I brought along) and at the end of the day walked out having bought unexpectedly a Distressed Master Model previously owned by Reischman.
    Had no intention of doing that , but then you never know.
    That's why they don't mind letting you play.
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    Default Re: Carters and Gruhns...visit yesterday

    Elderly used to have the policy that "if you can't play it you won't buy it". Not sure if that is still the case as I haven't been there in many years, but I am sure these stores feel the same way. If you play something that, to your ears is angels singing, you are much more likely to figure out how to pay for it than if you just see it hanging on the wall.

    On the other hand if you hear angels and you can't afford it you may be disappointed in the sound of your mandolin,
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

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    Registered User Mark Seale's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carters and Gruhns...visit yesterday

    Quote Originally Posted by multidon View Post
    Well first, let me say I’m NOT trying to pick a fight. Truly. I know there are many who will disagree with this. But personally, I don’t think it’s quite right to go into a shop, take up store employee’s time, spend the day, playing everything in the store (putting unnecessary additional play wear on the entire inventory) when you are NOT in the market for a new instrument. What is the purpose here? Free entertainment? Self-education? If the OP had at the very minimum said that there was at least a chance, albeit ever so small, that he might have played SOMETHING that he couldn’t walk away from, that might make me feel a bit better about this process.

    This is just my opinion. YMMV. I couldn’t do it. I mean, I’d certainly go in and look, but I wouldn’t make employees take them down from the wall for me to play unless I had a serious interest. Phase don’t flame me! I’m willing to bet dollars to donuts I’m in the minority here.
    Most of these shops welcome players and this forum, and those like it, is exactly why. Here you have a player that went into multiple shops and came back singing the praises of the shops, the staff, and the selection of instruments. While that person wasn't the player for these instruments, they've likely spread the message to at least a few that are.

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    Registered User Trey Young's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carters and Gruhns...visit yesterday

    I was at Carter’s last month and went in with no intention (or really the realistic means to) of purchasing an instrument that day. I did specifically want to check out the Northfield GBOM there as I do hope to be in the market for one of those soon, but any way, I went to ask if I could play the instrument and was told by the store employee to help myself to any instrument that was not behind glass. So after that interaction, I played plenty of mandolins that I was in no way thinking of purchasing. My favorite of the day was a 1910 F-2 as I’m pretty well satisfied with my F-5/A-5 situation.

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    Default Re: Carters and Gruhns...visit yesterday

    Quote Originally Posted by multidon View Post
    I don’t think it’s quite right to go into a shop, take up store employee’s time, spend the day, playing everything in the store (putting unnecessary additional play wear on the entire inventory) when you are NOT in the market for a new instrument. What is the purpose here? Free entertainment? Self-education?
    For clarification, the handful of times I have gone to Carter and Gruhn, the store employees don't usually hover too much. And George Gruhn gave me an unscheduled hour-long tour/conversation/Loar study because he simply loves music and musicians.

    At those stores, it's not exactly like 14-year-olds at Guitar Center asking to play "stairway to heaven" on a Les Paul through a Marshall stack.

    Financially, I have no business buying a Gilchrist. But I'm a caliber of player who might want to understand the differences between a Gilchrist and a Pava and my own Eastman. I'm also an aspiring builder who wants to see and feel what I'm trying to achieve.

    I can't speak for every player, but I also don't believe that respectfully playing a mandolin in a store should contribute significant wear. I think if you're hurting an instrument by playing it, you should probably relearn how to play (IMO). The wear on my mandolin has come from a gigging situation (sweat, crowded stage + inebriated bandmates), not from living room strumming.

    Just my side. If the stores didn't want people to have access to the instruments, it'd be easy enough for them to lock the door and require an audition + refundable $200 deposit to test instruments.

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    Registered User Doug Brock's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carters and Gruhns...visit yesterday

    As for playing but not buying... Stores that so willingly allow musicians to educate their ears and brains are doing a great service and hopefully developing future buyers! (and its a surprising service, in these days of struggling local music stores as well as the all-too-real fear of random acts of violence by folks toward people and property)

    My education is decidedly lacking. I've only played Eastmans, Kentuckys, a few old Gibsons, some different Collings MT and MF mandolins, and misc low-end mandolins. Due to my reading about customers' experiences at these Nashville stores, my wife is definitely open to a trip to Nashville to sight see AND let me get some healthy education toward that future $3k to $6k upgrade!
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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carters and Gruhns...visit yesterday

    Many years ago when I was fairly young, I was very into photography. I lived in New York City then but there were some stores, in which if you wanted to look at a camera the sales person would ask you if you were going to buy it that day. If not, he would not bother showing it to you. I thought that was a truly short-sighted sales philosophy since there were half a dozen other stores down the street then. So I went to another store and the salesperson was very helpful even thought I bought nothing there that day. However, when I was ready to drop some cash I went back to the second store and continued to do so later.

    I do see Multidon's point above. Even if the OP says he will never need another mandolin, first of all, I am not sure that I believe it. Plus he did get the satisfaction that his Duff was all he will ever need (at this moment). He also reported back on a number of other amazing instruments. Of course, I wonder if he had played one mandolin that made him think his Duff was not the be-all and end-all.

    Honestly, I do the same shopping in music stores. I recently was at RetroFret and I am sure it was very obvious I was not going to buy a $48,000 Gibson Advanced Jumbo but it was an experience that I will probably always remember. Back in the late 1970s I went to Mandolin Brothers and played a late 1920s Nick Lucas guitar that I still remember to this day. These music stores give us such great opportunities. The ones that specialize in vintage instruments allow us to actually play these vs. just looking at them in museums.
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    Default Re: Carters and Gruhns...visit yesterday

    I went to Carter's for the 1st time a few months ago. I was standing over in the "moderately priced ($2500-$6000)" mandolins fumbling my way through a few tunes (I am not a great picker and I tend to get nervous in those situations), when 1 of the sales personnel came up and asked me if I wanted to PLAY the Loars!! I said that I would love to see them, to which he responded "no, you can play them."!!! He took my wife and I to the "High End" room, unlocked a small glass case and handed me a 1923 Loar (I was shaking like a leaf). He then left the room to wait on another customer and I sat and picked the Loar for about 15 minutes. When he came back in the room, I handed it to him, thanked him, and he locked it back up, went to another case, got out a Loar with a Virzi, handed it to me to play, and went to wait on someone else. When he came back about 10 minutes later, he jokingly asked me which one I wanted, to which I replied "both." (As an aside, I preferred the sounds of the non-Virzi) For the record, I left with a case sticker, 5 new picks to try, and a feeling of being on Cloud 9.
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    Registered User f5joe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carters and Gruhns...visit yesterday

    In my experience, both stores are very generous in their time and encouragement to play things. Hats off to them both. Cotten is just as generous. Great shops!
    ..... f5joe

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    Default Re: Carters and Gruhns...visit yesterday

    I see nothing wrong with going and playing anything as that's what those shops are there for! They actually encourage it because they know that most people haven't even seen a Loar F-5 up close let alone play one. And even if your not buying today your experience with gracious hosts at the shops-well the seed is planted IMHO. "Hey they were really nice to me, perhaps I'll buy from them in the future once I have my change jar full!"

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    Registered User Hendrik Ahrend's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carters and Gruhns...visit yesterday

    Never been to Carters or to Gruhns. They seem like wonderful places for LL geeks like me. I have a habit of buying my Loars sight unseen.

  28. #19

    Default Re: Carters and Gruhns...visit yesterday

    Quote Originally Posted by multidon View Post
    Well first, let me say I’m NOT trying to pick a fight. Truly. I know there are many who will disagree with this. But personally, I don’t think it’s quite right to go into a shop, take up store employee’s time, spend the day, playing everything in the store (putting unnecessary additional play wear on the entire inventory) when you are NOT in the market for a new instrument.
    I understand your point Don. IMHO though, browsing with no real intent to buy is harmless and perfectly acceptable.

    What I think is rude and totally unacceptable is browsing any brick and mortar store, taking some owner/employee's valuable time and all the while intending to make your purchase through some other on-line site.

    Clark

    And nothing against buying on-line or the on-line sites. It's just that if you're going to enjoy the benefit of hands on research and the service offered by the brick and mortar store, it's only fair that you pay a small premium for that luxury.
    "I play BG so that's what I can talk intelligently about." A line I loved and pirated from Mandoplumb

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    Default Re: Carters and Gruhns...visit yesterday

    I'm verry blessed to have Gryphon in my neighborhood. I've been going in there for thirty years or more. I have set rules for myself for my own self protection. If I am there for entertainment, I only play guitars on the used wall, and I only play mandolins within reach. Since I'm usually not seriously shopping, I don't ask to play the behind the counter inventory, though they have no problem with that.

    My main rule is to never play an instrument I would never consider buyings , which is $4k for a mandolin. I do play one tier above my comfort zone, but I'd never ask to play a $7000 mandolin. Now I have gotten an education. I've bought about four instruments there. But I've never left without spending $25. I know very well now what a Collings MF sounds like, but if I bought one it would be bought used from an online shop or private individual. Hence the small payments on each visit.

    If I were to go to Nashville, be assured I'd leave with tee shirts, caps and strings. It's just good eticate to spend some money. The big stores have multi million dollar inventories.
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  31. #21
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    Default Re: Carters and Gruhns...visit yesterday

    Quote Originally Posted by William Smith View Post

    How was that 31 F-5 at Gruhn's? That looks like a nice one, a bit pricey though.
    I know that mandolin well. I know the current owner, who bought it many years ago from Tom Rozum, who used the mandolin extensively in the old days. It's a very good instrument, in very fine condition.

    Before Spann's guide came out with the updated serial number list, it was dated 1929. Since George is now using Spann's guide to date pre-war Gibsons, he is now representing it as a 1931 instrument.

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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carters and Gruhns...visit yesterday

    Quote Originally Posted by Br1ck View Post
    My main rule is to never play an instrument I would never consider buyings , which is $4k for a mandolin. I do play one tier above my comfort zone, but I'd never ask to play a $7000 mandolin.
    I find that a little strange. I firmly believe that dollar value is never the whole story on instruments. I play $300 mandolins and have played $200,000 ones. I love finding real bargains like everyone else , but would never pass up an opportunity to try something that is valued monetarily and see what it is about. And, of course, I have played some $7,000-15,000 mandolins that I would not trade for one of my lower-priced ones. Then again, there are some that impress me greatly.

    And how would you ever educate yourself? As long as you are respectful and not annoying in a store, what is the harm? And what is to say that down the line you might buy a $7,000 or even a $10,000 mandolin. I can see you saying, "Gee, there was that Ellis there a year or two ago and I could have at least tried it but now I have to travel to Nashville or Texas to play one." Grab the opportunity while you can. You do have a self-limiting wallet and enough will power (or fear of others in your family not eating) to not over spend on an instrument. Right?
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    Default Re: Carters and Gruhns...visit yesterday

    I just wanted to pop back in to say ithas really been interesting for me to read all the various responses to the point I brought up. No vitriol, no flaming, just good spirited discussion on differing viewpoints. I really appreciate it! And, never having had the opportunity to visit Nashville, I also was interested to hear how accommodating and friendly these stores are. Maybe I’ll get a chance to go there someday. For those of you who differed with me, I can see your point of view also. Carry on!
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    Default Re: Carters and Gruhns...visit yesterday

    What good is playing an instrument you could never hope to afford? You just end up wishing you could and every instrument you can afford is always going to be lacking, so I just educate myself to the possible, and if I find one that speaks to me that I can buy, I'll know it.

    I pass on prewar Martins too, although I've played a few. But those old D 18s haunt me.
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  38. #25

    Default Re: Carters and Gruhns...visit yesterday

    I concur with multidon and Br1ck. I don't want to try out any instrument that I know I would not buy.

    I was in a boutique electric guitar store 15 years ago and saw a guy pull a Paul Reed Smith guitar, worth at least $2K, off the wall. It must have slipped out of his grip, because he dropped it on the floor with a loud BANG. Glad it wasn't me. Extra glad it wasn't me with a Gilchrist, Loar, or Nugget mandolin.

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