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Thread: Playing a slippery bowlback...

  1. #1
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    Default Playing a slippery bowlback...

    How does one play a bowlback without having it slip out of your lap?
    Using my hands or forearms to keep it from moving doesn't do much
    for playing technique.
    Is there some sort of pad or rubberized fabric which would keep it
    anchored? [I'd want to be sure this wouldn't damage the finish of course.]
    Maybe a chair with a built-in cage to hold it?
    thanks, Joel

    Something like this:
    Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #2
    Registered User G7MOF's Avatar
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    Default Re: Playing a slippery bowlback...

    A piece of dashboard rubber helps and you don't need to fasten it or stick it. This is the sort of rubber you lay on your dashboard to stop things sliding around.
    I never fail at anything, I just succeed at doing things that never work....


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  3. #3
    Registered User Bob Buckingham's Avatar
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    Default Re: Playing a slippery bowlback...

    This is how my late friend Kenny Hall held his taterbug. Click image for larger version. 

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    Of course he played with his fingernails too.
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  5. #4
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    Default Re: Playing a slippery bowlback...

    Non slip shelf liner, probably the same as the dashboard stuff.

    Also practice, and what shirt you wear, I find woolly jumpers hard, T shirts better.

    One very good player I know uses a strap, but sits on it rather than having it going over his shoulder. I find that siting the mandolin on my leg doesn't work for me, maybe because I am quite tall, and I wedge it into my side.
    - Jeremy

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  6. #5
    Registered User Martin Ohrt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Playing a slippery bowlback...

    I don't know if such things are available where you live, but in Germany sheets of foamed rubber, put in the player's lap, are commonly used. For example:
    https://schneidermusik.de/shop1/prod...ducts_id/17564
    (Of course, NFI)
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  7. #6
    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Playing a slippery bowlback...

    Quote Originally Posted by Joel Glassman View Post
    How does one play a bowlback without having it slip out of your lap?
    Using my hands or forearms to keep it from moving doesn't do much
    for playing technique.
    As mentioned there are the rubbery pads that many folks use.

    I've never needed one; as a player of bowlbacks since I was a kid, I use the common 3 point method of holding any bowl instrument, be it mandolin, lute, bouzouki, oud or saz.

    The 1st point of contact is the instrument back to your body.

    Point 2 is the left hand, which slightly supports the neck but mostly provides a backwards push to balance things.

    Point 3, the right forearm, which also puts some slight back pressure to the body.

    Try this and see if it helps.

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  9. #7

    Default Re: Playing a slippery bowlback...

    My bowlback has a fairly wide tailpiece cover. It is convex, which allows your forearm to rest comfortably in it and hold the mandolin in place. Does yours have the same?

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    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Playing a slippery bowlback...

    Sitting cross legged helps me.

    Mick
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  13. #9
    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: Playing a slippery bowlback...

    A shoestring or thin leather lace, tied around the headstock above the nut, and threaded through the tailpiece at the other end, can serve as a "strap" over your shoulder or around neck and shoulder, and stabilize the instrument. Also useful if you have to play standing up, at some point.
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  14. #10

    Default Re: Playing a slippery bowlback...

    Cafe user Tavy made a how-to video for this that I found helpful when I was starting on bowlback:


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    Default Re: Playing a slippery bowlback...

    Quote Originally Posted by Seter View Post
    Cafe user Tavy made a how-to video for this that I found helpful when I was starting on bowlback:

    he describes the 3 point method in other words; note the method at 3:37.

  17. #12
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Playing a slippery bowlback...

    I started with the rubber cloth then switched to a chamois one both in concert with a guitar stool. I also tried crossing my legs but that was not great for my circulation. Eventually, I ended up figuring out what David and John Maddock so expertly describe. I would probably use a guitar foot stool if i was actually performing but for around the house playing, I don't bother.
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    Default Re: Playing a slippery bowlback...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    I started with the rubber cloth then switched to a chamois one both in concert with a guitar stool. I also tried crossing my legs but that was not great for my circulation. Eventually, I ended up figuring out what David and John Maddock so expertly describe. I would probably use a guitar foot stool if i was actually performing but for around the house playing, I don't bother.
    Many players do use something similar to raise the leg- one guy I saw at the CMSA convention used his fiberglass mandolin case as a footrest!

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    Default Re: Playing a slippery bowlback...

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidKOS View Post
    Many players do use something similar to raise the leg- one guy I saw at the CMSA convention used his fiberglass mandolin case as a footrest!
    I have done that, but my back goes out after about 10 mins, same with crossed legs.
    - Jeremy

    Wot no catchphrase?

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    Default Re: Playing a slippery bowlback...

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidKOS View Post
    he describes the 3 point method in other words; note the method at 3:37.
    Nice mandolin that John is playing, btw....

    Mick
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    Default Re: Playing a slippery bowlback...

    I use a piece of shelf liner, but am hoping I eventually won't need it.

  24. #17
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Playing a slippery bowlback...

    Quote Originally Posted by LadysSolo View Post
    I use a piece of shelf liner, but am hoping I eventually won't need it.
    A friend of mine and I joked in those old days of making a formal concertwear outfit (me a suit and she a gown) out of shelf liner. I suppose we could also use wetsuit material.
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    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Playing a slippery bowlback...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    A friend of mine and I joked in those old days of making a formal concertwear outfit (me a suit and she a gown) out of shelf liner. I suppose we could also use wetsuit material.
    A Paraguay pants would go good with that sport coat, Jim.....

    Mick
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    Default Re: Playing a slippery bowlback...

    Some Irish bag pipers play with a leather piece in their lap, , Try that?
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  29. #20
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    Default Re: Playing a slippery bowlback...

    Quote Originally Posted by LadysSolo View Post
    I use a piece of shelf liner, but am hoping I eventually won't need it.
    Why? Many mandolin players use that or something like. It works.
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  31. #21
    Registered User Martin Jonas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Playing a slippery bowlback...

    I use a piece of shelf liner as well -- never saw the need for either a chamois or a branded mandolin cloth, as they do exactly the same job except for more money.

    Whether you need a slip mat or not depends on the angle at which you hold the mandolin neck and hence the precise point at which your right forearm makes contact with the mandolin. Using David's "three point" description, if you hold your right arm in line with the mandolin neck (either both horizontal to the floor or both at the same angle to the floor) then your second point of contact will be your lower arm pressing onto the tailpiece of the mandolin. In that case, the mandolin body is held firmly between the two points of contact with no torque being exerted, hence no slippage. If you hold the mandolin neck at an angle to your right arm, then your point of contact will be off-centre on the edge of the soundboard, above the tailpiece. That exerts a torque on the mandolin which causes the bowl to turn. To prevent this, you need either a slip mat or a fourth point of contact (your raised thigh) on the other edge of the soundboard to compensate.

    Note that there is nothing "wrong" or "right" about this. It's perfectly valid technique to hold your right arm at an angle to the neck and hence having the point of contact between forearm and soundboard edge off-centre. It's also perfectly valid technique to hold the neck parallel to the floor. It's even perfectly valid technique (although awkward looking) to hold the mandolin neck almost vertical and hold the body between both thighs in the way some German players do. They're all different approaches to playing position and have their ergonomic advantages and disadvantages.

    Martin

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  33. #22
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    Default Re: Playing a slippery bowlback...

    Quote Originally Posted by mandroid View Post
    Some Irish bag pipers play with a leather piece in their lap, , Try that?
    That's for "popping" on the lowest note of the chanter.

  34. #23
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Playing a slippery bowlback...

    Here's a couple of photos of Giuseppe Pettine's Vega Pettine Special to which he glued a piece of either rubber or leather to the back to prevent slipping. Not recommended!

    Click image for larger version. 

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  36. #24
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    Default Re: Playing a slippery bowlback...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    Here's a couple of photos of Giuseppe Pettine's Vega Pettine Special to which he glued a piece of either rubber or leather to the back to prevent slipping. Not recommended!

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	174948 Click image for larger version. 

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    You'd have thought that Charles Goodyear would have offered him a product endorsement contract.

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  38. #25

    Default Re: Playing a slippery bowlback...

    Quote Originally Posted by brunello97 View Post
    You'd have thought that Charles Goodyear would have offered him a product endorsement contract.
    Yup, it looks like a tire tube to me!

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