Old Alvarez vs newer Loar LM600

[Keithwah]

Greetings!

First time poster long time listener....Dumb question by a newer mandolin player, but very experienced older guitarist.

I am buying my first "decent" mando in the next couple days. I have a choice of a vintage 70's Alvarez A800 with the block inlays (kinda prefer the cooler snowflakey type inlays...but...) or a maybe 2-3 year old Loar LM-600. The Alvarez is in great shape owned by a serious mando player and per him, very well set up and has tone for miles. The Loar is owned by a person that never really learned to play it, mostly sat in case.

Beyond the obvious, "you have to play them both.." I get that, I've been buying and selling guitars and basses for 40 years. My question is what would you lean towards. I'm sure they both sound wonderful, the Alvarez will probably be a little more interesting since its owned by a player who does his own work, whereas the Loar has been in a closet or under a bed for a while. I'm not looking at the resale factor, as much as why would somebody gravitate towards the newer Loar made in China vs the vintage Alvarez made in Japan. I've many times noticed that the old Japanese copies of the 70's , while cool in their own right, really aren't made better than some of the newer stuff made in China. Both axes are carved spruce tops, and maple solid sides and backs. So both are what I want to own, but only one gets to come home.

Cost wise, the Loar is at $500 and the Alvarez is at $450.

Thoughts?

[Seter]

Do you know where the owner of the Loar got it from? If it was never set up, that would add some extra cost to getting to the same playability level as the Alvarez. Did Alvarez owner gig/jam with it or was it his backup? Are there any other extras, like one comes with a case and one doesn't?

[Steve Sorensen]

Some of the 70s Alvarez mandolins made in Japan were really stand-out and have only gotten better. Seems like a deal fraught with potential. I have a friend who still sticks with his Alvarez since we were in a band together waaaaaay back in '79 . . .

The Loar = Thick tone-killing finish, clunky build specs, clean appearance, but kind of come across as glossy logs with strings.

Either way, remember, as the old song says, "There's more pretty girls than one."

Steve

[Keithwah]

Wish it was that easy. The A800 comes with a newer TKL hard case, the LM-600 has a softside "case", but not a bag. I'm pretty sure she got it from a local music shop which isn't necessarily known for great set-ups, but I'd wind up doing the set-up myself. I've set a few inexpensive ones up really nicely, so I'm not too worried about that aspect. The Alvarez owner had it as a backup for his old slightly nicer A800, but this one is very broken in, and obviously I can take the word of an experienced player over a "kid" that bought on a whim and never took it much further. The LM-600, has no great player mojo built-in as it wasn't ever a gigged instrument. The Alvarez has seen the road for sure, but is in 7.5-8/10 physical appearance.

[Keithwah]

Steve, I had the understanding the LM-600 had a Nitro finish, which would surprise me if it was "too" thick a finish, but I honestly have only played a few Loar LM-310's and an LM-520, so if you've had an LM-600 in hand, then you would know better than I.

So, from your reply, I'm getting....just get the cool old one if it plays and sounds good. I'm not looking for what holds its value..as much as if there are many LM-600 players that swear by them and their tone and playability...with the idea that the Loar will wind up being a better long term buy. Either way, I know both are in the entry-mid level but I'm looking for something that will take me to the next level from my old Johnson SF-100. And I am partial to vintage axes, my main bass is a '66 Jazz Bass, my main acoustic is a pawn shop D-28 I got on a xmas eve for $550 back in the early 90's, and my main electric 6 is a 89 Gibson Explorer. So I was thinking I'd really dig the mojo the Alvarez has the second I picked it up, but had my mind set on a nicer Loar as I didn't expect to the Alvarez. That said, $500 for a barely used LM-600 isn't a bad price from my research.

Thanks for your thoughts!! They are very helpful!!

BTW, your Mandolins are absolutely off the hook spectacular!!! Gives me something to shoot for when I'm ready for the big time! Lol!

[Br1ck]

I think you're on a long list of Sorenson admirers.

[Dave Greenspoon]

You can get a new Eastman 515 for around 1K. It will come with a lifetime warranty, perfectly working tuning machines, and typically a good set up if purchased from any vendor well-known on the Cafe. That's my baseline for all comparisons to follow.

Loar--the 700 is highly regarded by many; the 600 isn't the 700. FWIW, the new 700 I test drove during a visit to Lark Street in Teaneck didn't trip my trigger. YMMV on the 600. I did have a lower-end Loar for a back-up for a while. I trust it is enjoying its new home still.

Alvarez--the late 70's MIJ A800's are often excellent mandolins. The concern is usually how well the tuning machines hold tune at that point, the condition of the neck, and then seam separation. You may well be inheriting a fret job (or some at least a little leveling/dressing) that has been waiting to happen; be sure to check them.

In either case of the used instrument, be prepared to spend $100-$200 for set up depending on your shop or tech. At that point, you're really at min. $550-$600.

For me, the value of pre-owned hits diminishing return when the price hits 2/3 of new for a comparable or better item. In this scenario, the Loar isn't compelling enough for me to be looking at at least $600. I'd pass.

The Alvarez still has my attention. I'd likely choose it over the brand new Eastman 515 at $1K. Put that Eastman on sale, and the Alvarez might get bumped.

In your scenario, I easily choose the Alvarez over the Loar.

[HoGo]

I had one of the 70's Alvarez f-5 few months ago and it was definately WORST sounding mandolin I came across in last few years. Top was really thick near the scroll (could be nearing 1/2") and in the center and tonebars could hold your roof. I shaved through the f holes more than half of the 1" tall bars but still it opened just slightly. The back was too thick as well...
I would definately want to play it before buy...

[Keithwah]

Br1ck, That's for sure! Man, when i saw the stuff he was building.....Jeez Louise! It was very gracious to offer me a few minutes of perspective. As a guitarist, nothing I appreciate more than 'Bursts and Flames!

[Keithwah]

You can get a new Eastman 515 for around 1K. It will come with a lifetime warranty, perfectly working tuning machines, and typically a good set up if purchased from any vendor well-known on the Cafe. That's my baseline for all comparisons to follow.

Loar--the 700 is highly regarded by many; the 600 isn't the 700. FWIW, the new 700 I test drove during a visit to Lark Street in Teaneck didn't trip my trigger. YMMV on the 600. I did have a lower-end Loar for a back-up for a while. I trust it is enjoying its new home still.

Alvarez--the late 70's MIJ A800's are often excellent mandolins. The concern is usually how well the tuning machines hold tune at that point, the condition of the neck, and then seam separation. You may well be inheriting a fret job (or some at least a little leveling/dressing) that has been waiting to happen; be sure to check them.

In either case of the used instrument, be prepared to spend $100-$200 for set up depending on your shop or tech. At that point, you're really at min. $550-$600.

For me, the value of pre-owned hits diminishing return when the price hits 2/3 of new for a comparable or better item. In this scenario, the Loar isn't compelling enough for me to be looking at at least $600. I'd pass.

The Alvarez still has my attention. I'd likely choose it over the brand new Eastman 515 at $1K. Put that Eastman on sale, and the Alvarez might get bumped.

In your scenario, I easily choose the Alvarez over the Loar.

Awesome info! That was where I was sitting. I've heard really good things about The Loar stuff, but I don't hear much love coming from long time players. I was talking to a buddy of mine who tours with a country star who has taken her music to a bluegrass trio these days, and he had no clue there even was a brand called The Loar. He kept thinking I was asking about a "Lloyd" and couldn't believe I wasn't getting ripped off with a fake for that kinda money. Lol! So either way, provided the A800 is solid and makes me happy tone wise, I'm picking it up this evening. Thanks for your thoughts Dave!

[Keithwah]

I had one of the 70's Alvarez f-5 few months ago and it was definately WORST sounding mandolin I came across in last few years. Top was really thick near the scroll (could be nearing 1/2") and in the center and tonebars could hold your roof. I shaved through the f holes more than half of the 1" tall bars but still it opened just slightly. The back was too thick as well...
I would definately want to play it before buy...

Adrian, Thank you for the input. I'm praying I'm going to go check out one from a parallel universe from your old one. I have read good things about them in the forum, although, feast or famine. I am not as big a fan of old Japanese guitars as many vintage guys might be as the build quality wasn't always what we remembered. I've played some horrible Japanese guitars from the 70's, not all the lawsuit era Ibanez Lesters and V's were good guitars, but most were. Absolutely playing it first! Thanks!

[HoGo]

Adrian, Thank you for the input. I'm praying I'm going to go check out one from a parallel universe from your old one. I have read good things about them in the forum, although, feast or famine. I am not as big a fan of old Japanese guitars as many vintage guys might be as the build quality wasn't always what we remembered. I've played some horrible Japanese guitars from the 70's, not all the lawsuit era Ibanez Lesters and V's were good guitars, but most were. Absolutely playing it first! Thanks!

I must correct myself. I looked for pics of that one and it was IBANEZ from 70's, Japan. SORRY for confusion.

[Bill Kammerzell]

I've had three Alvarez F styles over the years. The first was a late 1970's A700 from Japan, that was a pretty good sounding mandolin. I've also owned two Korean made A-800's from the early to mid 1990's. Those two were different as night and day from each other. One was like a "brick with strings" the other was a pretty good sounding mandolin. About 3 and a half years ago I had a Loar LM600 that sounded pretty good. I'd have to say based on my experience both of those are decent price points if they are good sounding easy playing mandolins.

[Timbofood]

I’ve had my Alvarez since 1975, it’s been a great mandolin! Save the fifty bucks, buy the Alvarez and. Case of beer, spare strings and get to it!

[Keithwah]

Went for the Alvarez. Its a great player, and its only gong to get better with some attention. The set-up was exceptional, no complaints.

It came without the pickguard, and honestly, i kinda like a pick guard to protect the finish when i go Pete Townsend on it at a show, right? But there is only the one pickguard mounting screw hole on the side of the body, there was no evidence of any mounting apparatus up towards the neck. any of you guys that have had them know how the top bout of the pickguard actually is connected? Or does it float?

thanks again for the guidance. Its a great axe!
Interestingly enough,

[Keithwah]

I must correct myself. I looked for pics of that one and it was IBANEZ from 70's, Japan. SORRY for confusion.

Thanks again Adrian...after bringing this home, I can't imagine one ever being that big of a drag. But hey, every kid has a bad day and drops their ice cream cone...so if there are lemons out there so be it!

[CES]

Good call! I often forget that The Loar went through some changes in their business model a couple of years ago that drew some ire from our little community, including Cafe Administration. I played a 700 9 or 10 years ago that was a very nice mandolin, but all of the more recent offerings I’ve played (which were admittedly lower models) didn’t have the quality of even older lower models I’ve played. As always, I’m sure there are some they get right, and would continue to judge them on their individual merit, but have trouble recommending them over Eastman, Kentucky, and J Bovier since their shift in culture.

Congrats on the new Alvarez! My favorite guitar remains a 1977 Yairi D-28 copy that my father in law gave me because the only time it got played was when I was over there. Really a nice 6 string...

[pelon]

I like you are new here but here's my input , i have never owned an alvarez mando but i have owned alvarez guitars and still have three , a 1978 sj sunburst copy of the j200 , an aj60sc 1996 , and a yairi dym70 i bought them all new and still love them all , i recently bought an old 1940 ish Kay a model mandolin full body bound sun burst w/ tortoise pik / guard, i removed and reset the neck cleaned her up and besides the cool factor it plays and ssssounds great ! Iguess what I'm saying is " if your heart and ear says yes I I
I want THE COOL OLD ONE ! JUST DO IT ! I'm sure that you like I could spend as much money as we wished , but hey I like the old ones probaly cause I are one , have fun !!!!

[Steve VandeWater]

Keithwah, are there no holes drilled into the neck (near where the body joins the neck) to support the pick guard? If not, it's a simple operation to drill them yourself.

[Dave Greenspoon]

Congrats on the selection; play it with joy! I appreciate adding on a pickguard. I did that for the Rigel A Nat. It is a relatively easy thing to do ones' self. If you prefer to shop it out, any good luthier should be able to handle it easily, if not a quality local instrument repair tech.

[Caleb]

That’s a seriously beautiful mandolin.

[Keithwah]

Oddly no. Just on the side of the beast. So it’s obvious it shipped with one, but I’m not buying that one screw held it securely in place. I can certainly small pilot holes, but am just wondering if possibly the stock piece did sit on there without additional drilling.
Hoping somebody who has an A800 could get me a close up of the forward “attachment”.

Keithwah, are there no holes drilled into the neck (near where the body joins the neck) to support the pick guard? If not, it's a simple operation to drill them yourself.

[Keithwah]

That’s a seriously beautiful mandolin.

It’s not a an old Gibson, but it has a great vibe, and a better tone than I have ever had. As opposed to any newer Chinese or Korean build, reaching back to look at a vintage Japanese made 70’s axe was a great option. Plus I get a real kick buying a vintage axe I could have bought new when I was in high school. Lol!

[Timbofood]

Good for you, there might just be a glue line where the old rosewood support was glued on. That’s how mine is, I think it broke loose once and I had to drill a pair of small holes and use small brads to slide in the holes, not pounded in but, snug slip fit.
Is the bracket still with it?
I bought mine the summer I graduated!

[Keithwah]

Good for you, there might just be a glue line where the old rosewood support was glued on. That’s how mine is, I think it broke loose once and I had to drill a pair of small holes and use small brads to slide in the holes, not pounded in but, snug slip fit.
Is the bracket still with it?
I bought mine the summer I graduated!

Thank you! I’ll inspect closer for glue residue. I think it might have been polished off over the years. No, the original guard and bracket is long gone,so I will have to locate an aftermarket online. I’m fairly handy so even if I have to make one myself I can...the mounting block, not the pick guard. The mounting block on both my first starters was screwed through into the side of the neck block.