Theme and Variations

[Mateus]

Throwing this out there for you mandolinists with some musical theory background or interest: any good ressources for studying how to create variations for a theme?

[Jim Garber]

What genre? Classical, jazz, bluegrass, etc.? Are you composing or just trying to improvise?

[Mateus]

Dont really care on the genre at the moment. Just trying to learn how to do it and then looking to apply it to some well known hymns and such.
So whatever you got that can help will be more than useful!
Because as of right now my only option is printing a copy of mozart's Je Vous Dirais-Je Maman and trying to figure out myself the variations from the original theme which sounds like a painful process.

[Mark Gunter]

Because as of right now my only option is printing a copy of mozart's Je Vous Dirais-Je Maman and trying to figure out myself the variations from the original theme which sounds like a painful process.

You can take this to any depth you want, really, from simply having multiple listens and noting the thematic variations existentially as you listen, to documenting things in a score as you've mentioned. Painful? Certainly could be, I suppose. They say, "No pain, no gain."

I'd suspect that variations on themes historically have sought to be fresh and creative, rather than simply made according formula, which seems to be what you are asking for ... unless I miss your meaning entirely.

[Jim Garber]

I agree with Mark that there is no one way to do it. After you compose a theme then the further skill is in the variations.

Beethoven wrote four pieces for an amateur mandolin student of his (rumor has it that amateur may have included multiple meaning of the word). The least played one is Variations for Mandolin and Piano (D DUR WOO 44B). Nice opening theme is very simple but pleasant then the mandolin takes off with a triplet variation. In one variation the mandolin just sits back and plays chop chords (kidding, of course) while the piano takes the break. Then the mandolin comes back with another variation. Here is a good recording to listen and analyze.



All the other Beethoven mandolin pieces are available online at imslp.org except for the Theme and Variations. Oh well...

In general, for these themes and variations you can vary the tempi and the rhythms. You can also switch from minor to major or even to another key. if it is a duet or larger group there can be conversations between instruments. It is really improvisation on paper as composer as opposed to as player like in jazz or bluegrass. There are plenty of other examples out there, classical or otherwise.

[UsuallyPickin]

Look at this book by John McGann https://play.google.com/store/books/...E&gclsrc=aw.ds R/

[Jim Garber]

Because as of right now my only option is printing a copy of mozart's Je Vous Dirais-Je Maman and trying to figure out myself the variations from the original theme which sounds like a painful process.

That is a fun piece to listen to. He must have had a blast composing that.



However, Wolfgang drew on what was in his head back in his time. It would be great to hear a modernized version with some variations flavored from 20th century genres like bluegrass, swing, bebop, choro, etc.

[Jim Garber]

Here's another theme and variations played by my friend Carlo Aonzo. He has been playing this piece for as long as I have known him: Antonio Riggieri's Variations on La Fustemberg.

[Mateus]

Thank you all!

I was asking for a method or formula to my madness so to speak. But these examples can help too!

Sometimes i wish music was more formaic and less expressive XD

[Jim Garber]

Learn by the examples. There are some similar threads. Just see what you can come up with. Go with your musical gut. You can always read the music note of note or create your own. It is all good.

[Martin Jonas]

That is a fun piece to listen to. He must have had a blast composing that.

However, Wolfgang drew on what was in his head back in his time. It would be great to hear a modernized version with some variations flavored from 20th century genres like bluegrass, swing, bebop, choro, etc.

Interesting mandolin trivia: there is in fact a set of six 18th century variations to that same tune ("Ah Vous Dirais-Je Maman") written specifically for two mandolins. Contemporaneous with Mozart's variation, but written by Pietro Denis as part of his mandolin method. I don't think I've come across a recording, and I'm not sure who came first, Mozart or Denis.

Martin

[Jim Garber]

That’s right. I have played that out of that book with Denis and other composers for mandolin. I have to take a look at that.

[Martin Jonas]

Another good source of relatively simple Baroque variations suitable for mandolin is Playford's Division Violin (and/or the almost identical "Division Flute") from 1685, available at IMSLP and in various free or commercial modern editions. It contains about 20 tunes with variations. The advantage of these over the more elaborately composed variations by "name" composers such as Beethoven, Mozart or Vivaldi is that they tend to be simpler and it's easier to see what the composer did.

I have in the past recorded four of these sets of variations:

Greensleeves to a Ground
Johnny, Cock Thy Beaver
Faronell's Division on a Ground ("La Folia")
John Banister's Division on a Ground

Martin

[DavidKOS]

Thank you all!

I was asking for a method or formula to my madness so to speak.

Maybe these links may help:

https://music.tutsplus.com/tutorials...ons--cms-20558

https://www.musictheoryacademy.com/u...nd-variations/

https://stevetres.com/2015/09/variations-on-a-theme/

http://composersforum.ning.com/forum...ing-variations

https://www.humanities.mcmaster.ca/~...qin_mozart.pdf

[Jim Garber]

https://music.tutsplus.com/tutorials...ons--cms-20558

That is great. I actually listened to the recording above and I started taking notes but that writer saved me a lot of time.

[EdHanrahan]

I found some of Pete Martin's stuff to be very helpful, especially the bluegrass improvisation one, even though I'm not at all a hardcore 'grasser.
http://www.petimarpress.com/index.html

A PERSONAL CONFESSION:
Pete, I owe you actual money! I got two of your download books waaay back when. (The deal had been to get 'em free and pay if you find them helpful.) Read thru 'em on the commuter train to NYC, always intending to get back and digest them in detail but, uhmm, life gets in the way. But considering the 500 or so times that I've mentally said, "Oh yeah, Pete Martins's book said to ...", I'll be sending out a check!

[Mateus]

This is tremendous stuff guys and gals!
Ill be filling up my bookmarks and go through it!