Memorizing the neck

[Jim Garber]

I play an instrument where it's super common for the tuning to be some version of C#. Mine is C# major. This makes it hard to play with other people. I cannot retune the instrument. Only people with malleable brains (and tunable instruments) can figure out what to do.

OK, i will bite. I am super curious. What instrument do you play that is tuned to C#?

[JonZ]

I made a similar post to the OP a while back, maybe prior to New Year's Day 2018 ... I tried using an app recommended by JonZ for awhile, and a few other things. What I've found over time, though, is that as you continue to work on chord building, understanding music theory, working scale patterns and transposing tunes, the knowledge of fingerboard note names just begins to sneak up on you without much fanfare over time.

They aren’t exclusive. I would definitely recommend spending more time on “using” fretboard knowledge than “drilling” fretboard knowledge.

I learned a lot about the fretboard without trying to learn the fretboard. But I didn’t learn it thoroughly until I deliberately practiced it.

Of course, you can say anything you want with the Mandolin without knowing the fretboard.

[JeffD]

This might be of use in getting the patterns of the mandolin ingrained.
http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/en...to-Doublestops

Cannot recommend this enough. For beginners, intermediates, and advanced, for anyone who hasn't seen this yet. It will either teach you a really (no really really) cool system of techniques and stuff that you can use, or it will organize in a new and exciting way the techniques and stuff you already knew. Or both.

[sbhikes]

OK, i will bite. I am super curious. What instrument do you play that is tuned to C#?

Handpan. I have two, one is C# major and the other is C minor, which basically has much of the same notes on it. Here's an example of a really good player that isn't me. This one is C# minor.


This one is C# major.

[Carl23]

You can practice any changes that you like and it might make your brain more malleable and might help you play SOMETHING/SOMETIME.

But.... in western music, generally speaking, and accepting many exceptions (this is the art of writing music), music tends to start on the tonic, then jump to some other chord before trying to progress BACK to the tonic by some phonically acceptable route.

This route TENDS to be a movement from 'a five' to its 'one' (e.g. A to D), and then may act as if the key has momentarily changed so that it can further progress from "another 5" to its "one" (e.g. D to G), etc., etc., etc., until the tonic is reached and the tension is resolved.

Many tunes are simplistic or trivial: think: 2 chord songs or 3 chord songs.
Jazz standards often change the tonal center many times, and many times moving from a "5" to 'its one'. The ii-V-I progression often seen is one simple example of this, with the ii to V being the first 5 to 1 change.

The point is that being very familiar with moving from V to I, redefining the I as the 'new 5' and repeating over and over is very helpful in playing lots of music types.

Try playing "Five Foot Two, Eyes of Blue"

YMMV

This is so funny... I just thought of this as a possibility this morning on my way to work. (the V-I thing) following the circle of 4ths is a constant stream of cadences (I great way to computationally "hide" the end goal cadence ... if you are in to that sort of thing )

I like your point about keeping the brain malleable, when I used to teach, I often talked about adding "handles" to an idea... the more handles you have, the easier it is to keep a hold on the thing. Makes for a greatly improved improvisation skill.

Have you read schenker? sounds like you know some classical analysis.

This gets me thinking... if you do a chromatic ascent, you can use a series of vii - I cadences... not sure the best way to do a chromatic descent? Neapolitan variation?


C

[Marjorie Carman]

Have you hear Corn Liquor by The Grascals it’s Whisky Before Breakfast with lyrics!

[mmuussiiccaall]

Since the strings of the mandolin are tuned open to the circle of 4/5ths the whole fingerboard is locked into that sequence. If you look at the circle in the 4ths rotation it happens to spell the word BEAD. So if you look at the fingerboard you will see that word represented in full or segments all over the neck. That takes care of 4 of the 7 letters of musical language. The other three in the 4ths rotation are GCF. I use the first letter of the words "Gold Chain Finished" to generate a memory device for these, so the whole sequence is, "BEAD Gold Chain Finished." In my mind I visualize this as a single bead hanging on a gold chain around my beautiful wife's neck. LOL! Finally, if you memorize the first (E) string and look directly across toward your face these patterns should be seen.

[JonZ]

“look directly across toward your face....”
🤔

[Phil Goodson]

This is so funny... I just thought of this as a possibility this morning on my way to work. (the V-I thing) following the circle of 4ths is a constant stream of cadences (I great way to computationally "hide" the end goal cadence ... if you are in to that sort of thing )

I like your point about keeping the brain malleable, when I used to teach, I often talked about adding "handles" to an idea... the more handles you have, the easier it is to keep a hold on the thing. Makes for a greatly improved improvisation skill.

Have you read schenker? sounds like you know some classical analysis.

This gets me thinking... if you do a chromatic ascent, you can use a series of vii - I cadences... not sure the best way to do a chromatic descent? Neapolitan variation?


C

I'm sorry. I have no idea what you're talking about! (Certainly doesn't address anything I was trying to say.)

[JeffD]

Right to the point:

I don't think you need to memorize the neck to play up the neck. In my mind playing is the goal, memorizing.. not so much.

[onassis]

Exactly. The concept of "memorizing" seems to be the cart before the horse. Working on the patterns that are inherent to the mandolin and repeating them up the neck will result in increased fluency up the neck, but one doen't always need to know what exact note is being played at the moment. One only needs to know how that relates to the melody. I often forget what key I'm playing in, until I look down and puzzle it out.

[Carl23]

I'm sorry. I have no idea what you're talking about! (Certainly doesn't address anything I was trying to say.)

just talking about the theoretical implications (resolution of V to I / A to D) and other possible resolutions.

Schenker talked about this all the time (hence the reference there.)

The "handles" thing is the same as you "malleable" comment... at least in my mind. :-)

Hope that clarifies.

C