Results 1 to 21 of 21

Thread: Chorusing bleah

  1. #1
    Americana in France? Daniel Nestlerode's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Picardie
    Posts
    1,944
    Blog Entries
    81

    Default Chorusing bleah

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjClp_J6Nxs&t=544s

    Gear junkies beware! Chorus pedals discussed.

    Have decided I do not like chorusing. It makes me feel slightly nauseated.

    And none of the tones are anywhere near an emulation of paired strings.

    Or am I just not well versed enough with chorus pedals?

    Daniel

  2. #2
    Registered User Tom Wright's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Rockville, MD
    Posts
    1,561
    Blog Entries
    7

    Default Re: Chorusing bleah

    I agree chorus is not the same as paired strings. It is relentless, unchanging. Paired strings can be clean or chorused as desired, by means of picking technique and finger pressure.

    Another reason for paired strings is the richer attack. Pianos have single strings in the bass, where they are long. As they get shorter, pianos have double and then triple strings. It is natural for the short scale to be doubled, compared to the guitar at roughly twice the string length.

    Good reasons to have a 10-string. Why do we have lots of 5s but zero electric 10s, except for a couple of one-offs?
    Blog--Miniature Orchestra
    Sound Clips--SoundCloud
    Videos--YouTube
    The viola is proof that man is not rational

  3. #3
    Registered User Cheryl Watson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    St. Augustine, Florida, USA
    Posts
    1,340

    Default Re: Chorusing bleah

    I think I know why you do not like Chorus pedals (and I do not either). It makes a guitar sound wonky and out of tune. I used to play with a guitar player who used one. UGGG!

  4. #4
    Registered User Tavy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Tavistock UK
    Posts
    3,990

    Default Re: Chorusing bleah

    > Good reasons to have a 10-string. Why do we have lots of 5s but zero electric 10s, except for a couple of one-offs?

    Speaking personally - because I'm not sure if they would sell - prove otherwise or place an order and I'm happy to build as many as you would like

    There's also the issue of playability and sound: a single fairly large bass string is fairly easy to handle and not at all bad sounding, I'm fairly sure that dual super-thick bass strings would make an immediate bid for world domination There's also the risk of them smashing into each other and being a bit rattly in playing. You can use variable scale length of course, but then the build gets rather complex.

  5. The following members say thank you to Tavy for this post:


  6. #5
    Registered User Tavy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Tavistock UK
    Posts
    3,990

    Default Re: Chorusing bleah

    > And none of the tones are anywhere near an emulation of paired strings.

    There weren't many there that I liked that much - there was a purple one about 2/3 of the way through that was rather nice (or at least that suited my sensibilities), but the most of the rest didn't grab me that much.

    Call me biased (and I am quite shamelessly biased to be sure) but I'd rather have one of my octave strung 'zouks any day. Of course it's not comparing like-with-like, and an electric OM or 'zouk is a rather specialized thing...

  7. #6
    Registered User Tom Wright's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Rockville, MD
    Posts
    1,561
    Blog Entries
    7

    Default Re: Chorusing bleah

    Quote Originally Posted by Tavy View Post
    > Good reasons to have a 10-string. Why do we have lots of 5s but zero electric 10s, except for a couple of one-offs?

    Speaking personally - because I'm not sure if they would sell - prove otherwise or place an order and I'm happy to build as many as you would like

    There's also the issue of playability and sound: a single fairly large bass string is fairly easy to handle and not at all bad sounding, I'm fairly sure that dual super-thick bass strings would make an immediate bid for world domination There's also the risk of them smashing into each other and being a bit rattly in playing. You can use variable scale length of course, but then the build gets rather complex.
    I am getting great results using .048 for my C pairs on both electric and acoustic. I did increase the separation very slightly, both at nut and bridge—7/64” centers at nut for both, and 9/64” at the bridge. The Almuse and Buchanan are both 14.25” scale. But my 14” Ryder sounds great with single .050 and I am going to convert it to a 10-string.

    I get it about orders, but the question is really that—why do people want a 5 rather than a 10? I feel I have proved in practice, both acoustic and electric, that the scale that people find useful for 5-strings works equally well for 10. Let’s note that virtuoso bandolim players Hamilton de Holanda and Dudu Maia play ordinary-scale 10s (Dudu’s resonator is 14.25” like mine). The players actually using 10s in performance aren’t bothered by the worries about scale length.
    Blog--Miniature Orchestra
    Sound Clips--SoundCloud
    Videos--YouTube
    The viola is proof that man is not rational

  8. #7
    Registered User Tavy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Tavistock UK
    Posts
    3,990

    Default Re: Chorusing bleah

    >but the question is really that—why do people want a 5 rather than a 10?

    4 and 5 stringers are really quite different instruments and offer a whole new sound that double strung instruments don't have (and vice versa of course). Personally the 5 stringers are always my favourites and the ones I lust after, but, I'm not sure I have a use for one for the kind of music I tend to play

  9. #8
    Americana in France? Daniel Nestlerode's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Picardie
    Posts
    1,944
    Blog Entries
    81

    Default Re: Chorusing bleah

    I work mainly with 5 strings these days. But I write more than half my material, and none of the trad stuff I do is dependent upon a particular mandolin tone.

    The late great John McGann used a 10 string mando. I find them cumbersome. It's difficult enough to get the tension and playability balance right with 5 strings. Though going with a multi-scale is a great way to manage it.


    Years ago Alvarez did a 9 string guitar (E, A, D G-g, b-b, and e-e). Might be good inspiration for a 5 course mandolin instrument. Something like C G D aa ee, or with a longer scale G D A ee bb

    Still, no one wants to convince me a chorus pedal might be useful? I'm thinking they ought to be called warblers.

  10. The following members say thank you to Daniel Nestlerode for this post:


  11. #9
    Registered User Tom Wright's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Rockville, MD
    Posts
    1,561
    Blog Entries
    7

    Default Re: Chorusing bleah

    One chorus I would recommend (owning a copy) is the Bi-Chorus from AnalogMan, which uses the same chip as the old Electro-Harmonix Clone pedal. It has character, sort of Leslie-ish, and has two independent sections for variable speed and depth settings. Internal circuit custom adjustment is encouraged by the maker. Hughes and Kettner makes a Leslie pedal emulation with a tiny tube (valve) to add a trace of distortion, but it changes the instrument tonal balance a lot. Worth a try.

    At our recent performance, a guitar player asked if I was using chorus. (Nope, just the 10.) As to playability, I found the Lawrence Smart fan-fret 10 cumbersome and useless for me. As to comfort, my electric 10 has the same nut width as my Ryder 5-string: 1 7/16”. The Buchanan has the same nut width, but the neck flares more to 1 15/16” at the 12th fret. The Almuse 10 flares less, to 1 13/16”. Ryder’s 5-string neck flares to less than that, 1 11/16”, but the greater flare on the 10 was Pete Mallinson’s design and it feels fine. I expect the slightly slimmer Ryder neck to work ok with doubled strings, but the wider Almuse is very comfortable.

    It is harder to keep 10 strings in tune but I find it essential for tone. Not so much mandolin tone, but simply more tone.
    Blog--Miniature Orchestra
    Sound Clips--SoundCloud
    Videos--YouTube
    The viola is proof that man is not rational

  12. #10

    Default Re: Chorusing bleah

    I have the chorus set up on one preset of the Line 6. I use it for one song each night. I have used a Boss DC2 in the past and it was better for arpeggio chords etc. Just use what you need, when and if you need it to enhance a song. Let's be honest, effects are often more appreciated by the player and other players than audiences in my experience.

  13. #11
    Lord of All Badgers Lord of the Badgers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    South West UK
    Posts
    1,066

    Default Re: Chorusing bleah

    well my background is dreampop (to you americans!) or floaty ethereal new wave stuff (to my UK chums)... and chorus plus delay is a stock in trade. I'm patiently awaiting my Eastwood tenor just to get back there...
    My name is Rob, and I am Lord of All Badgers

    Paul Shippey custom "Tone" Octave Mandolin, Paul Shippey "Axe" Bouzouki,
    Phil Davidson A5 "Badgerlin" mandolin, Phil Davidson F5 mandolin,
    Mcilroy Tenor Guitar, Phil Davidson Tenor Mandola
    My band's website

  14. #12
    Mangler of Tunes OneChordTrick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Oxfordshire, England
    Posts
    631

    Default Re: Chorusing bleah

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of the Badgers View Post
    well my background is dreampop (to you americans!) or floaty ethereal new wave stuff (to my UK chums)... and chorus plus delay is a stock in trade. I'm patiently awaiting my Eastwood tenor just to get back there...
    I'm guessing that's not the band linked in your signature?

  15. #13

    Default Re: Chorusing bleah

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of the Badgers View Post
    well my background is dreampop (to you americans!) or floaty ethereal new wave stuff (to my UK chums)... and chorus plus delay is a stock in trade. I'm patiently awaiting my Eastwood tenor just to get back there...
    Well what you need is a used Boss DC2 Dimension C pedal.................................

  16. #14
    Lord of All Badgers Lord of the Badgers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    South West UK
    Posts
    1,066

    Default Re: Chorusing bleah

    Quote Originally Posted by OneChordTrick View Post
    I'm guessing that's not the band linked in your signature?
    ha ha
    i have many tastes, but I started out as i describe
    My name is Rob, and I am Lord of All Badgers

    Paul Shippey custom "Tone" Octave Mandolin, Paul Shippey "Axe" Bouzouki,
    Phil Davidson A5 "Badgerlin" mandolin, Phil Davidson F5 mandolin,
    Mcilroy Tenor Guitar, Phil Davidson Tenor Mandola
    My band's website

  17. The following members say thank you to Lord of the Badgers for this post:


  18. #15
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    High Peak - UK
    Posts
    2,457

    Default Re: Chorusing bleah

    This thread has brought back memories of the best use of a chorus pedal I’ve ever heard. Our US friends will probably never have come across may old mate singer/songwriter/comedian/actor Bernard Wrigley. I was handling the sound for him one night and he plugged in via a chorus pedal. During two 45 minute sets, the only time he used it was whilst he was going from standard to an open tuning. Everything was clearly set towards maximum and the sound was incredible. He admitted afterwards that it was the only reason he’d brought it along.

  19. #16
    Americana in France? Daniel Nestlerode's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Picardie
    Posts
    1,944
    Blog Entries
    81

    Default Re: Chorusing bleah

    Thanks Ray...

    Can you clarify? Did he turn it on while tuning and turn it off to play, or did he use it only for open tunings?

    Thanks!
    Daniel

  20. #17
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    High Peak - UK
    Posts
    2,457

    Default Re: Chorusing bleah

    Hi Daniel
    It must have been 30 years ago but I still remember him turning it on purely whilst he went from standard to an open tuning. That was the only time he used it the whole night.

    Don’t know if you’ve ever come across Bernard but he’s the archetypal folk club act - songs and stories - but has played on stage in such things as Waiting for Godot with Mike Harding, the big screen in such things a Brassed Off and the small screen in many roles including Coronation Street. It’s been years since our paths last crossed but he used to make a wicked home brew.

  21. The following members say thank you to Ray(T) for this post:


  22. #18
    Registered User Travis Wilson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    San Antonio, TX
    Posts
    100

    Default Re: Chorusing bleah

    Chorus and vibrato pedals can be downright obnoxious.

    They can also be great! In a stereo rig with a subtle setting, pedals like the Boss CE-2 or the Mr. Black Vintage Ensemble can add some glorious depth and texture. I think Stevie Ray Vaughn used a chorus-based pedal (Boss DC-2) in this way?

    I do not like chorus/vibrato in mono, and I do not like wild, sea-sick inducing settings. Use chorus responsibly.
    Thanks,
    Travis

    2006 Weber Gallatin, 1984 Flatiron 2MW, Wendler #194, Schwab #177

  23. #19
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Columbia, SC
    Posts
    2
    Blog Entries
    1

    Post Re: Chorusing bleah

    I agree that a good use of chorus can be a difficult undertaking - and that it does't do a believable job of making one string sound like more than one string.
    That being said, I use fairly regular use of modulatory effects on my 8-string electric. Other than a 1980s Yamaha Flanger (which I LOVE and which makes my lead lines the center of attention like a jumbo jet engine), my main mod pedal is also my main delay:
    the Space Spiral by Earthquaker Devices.

    https://youtu.be/0HNfXOC6uZY


    A combination Delay/Mod pedal, I use it to thicken up my tone by turning the delay time & repeats/feedback all the way down and adding a tiny bit of triangle wave warble at medium to medium-fast mod speed.
    The review video I link to shows a similar setting at the 2:37 timestamp.

    The effect of this pedal with these settings is a smooth, gentle vibrato on the delay, but not on your original note - thus producing a very basic chorus. The millisecond-delay does - indeed - increase your original signal, and the modulation of that delay creates a fully distinct tonal counterpart.

    That being said, your sound is your sound. If you don't like the dizzy warble of pitch modulation, maybe give a wah pedal a try.
    I hosted an open mic where a group had a mandolinist with a wah, and the audience loved it.
    Anyway, to each their own tone.
    ;]

  24. The following members say thank you to HarryBraswell for this post:


  25. #20
    Registered User Dave Fultz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Columbus, Oh
    Posts
    131

    Default Re: Chorusing bleah

    Not all pedals are for all instruments and especially with acoustic instruments and voice, a little is typically better than a lot.

    I too never ever had much use for chorus, except to maybe to turn it to it’s slightest setting to add a little richness, but really consider the reverb (again a little) to be the one pedal I really like. Compression can also enhance sound in a quite audible but less obvious way.

    Ive never really used any effect on mandolin, and have used just a touch on acoustic guitar. Electric guitar, now that’s what pedals are really made for, but still I can live without chorus of all effects.

    ============
    ~Music self-played is happiness self-made
    ——————————
    Loar LM-590
    Kentucky KM-272
    Johnson MA-110

  26. #21
    Oval holes are cool David Lewis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    1,052

    Default Re: Chorusing bleah

    Chorus is best when it’s subtle. Wind the effect back and then see what happens. Don’t play chords. Arpeggiate. Good luck with it.
    JBovier ELS; Epiphone MM-50 VN; Epiphone MM-40L; Gretsch New Yorker G9310; Washburn M1SDLB;

    Fender Nashville Deluxe Telecaster; Squier Modified Vintage Cabronita Telecaster; Gretsch 5420T; Fender Tim Armstrong Hellcat: Washburn Banjo B9; Ibanez RB 5string; Ibanez RB 4 string bass

    Pedalboard for ELS: Morley Cry baby Miniwah - Tuner - EHX Soul Food Overdrive - EHX Memory Toy analog Delay
    Fender Blues Jr Tweed; Fender Greta;

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •