Is this a reasonable price?

[martianshark]

Hello, I'm new to mandolins. This question is mostly just out of curiosity, as I recently obtained a mandolin that'll work for me for now. Prior to getting one, I was looking at craigslist and came across this mandolin: https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/...779051389.html

Kinda old looking with no info given on the brand or model. I'm just curious - is $150 with no room for offers reasonable? Anyone recognize the the model or maker?

[Timbofood]

It’s not “unpretty” looks fairly solid from what I can see, others with much more bowlback knowledge may offer better perspective. But, it’s certainly going to need some TLC for playing, which could run into a bit “out of pocket” unless you have skills. Good setup can run $100.00 pretty easily if things are still solid, more if there is any unseen structural issues.
The case is pretty much shot, I don’t see that as the huge plus the seller seems to think. You can’t use the case, the clown shoe cases are pretty hard to find but, you never know.
I don’t think I’d do it for his FIRM price, wait two weeks...

[EdHanrahan]

The big question is its playability, meaning: how far are the strings above the fretboard, and how straight is the neck? Since it's not set up to play (the bridge is normally held on by string pressure only, but is sitting there loose), that's difficult to tell from photos. And it's not easy to adjust on bowlbacks; as Timothy hinted, doing so could cost more than the instrument is worth.

Note that it's a student-quality instrument despite the fretboard inlays: there are only 7 "barrel staves" to the body, with inlay to make it look like twice as many. A top quality instrument would have up to 35 segments.

On the plus side, it looks pristine with very pretty rosewood, so probably wasn't subjected to the extremes of temperature or humidity that many have suffered over decades of storage; that tends to warp the neck & body. At the very worst, it's prettier than most wall-hangers!

[Denny Gies]

Also, what kind of music do you want to play?

[allenhopkins]

I wouldn't do it. There are quite a few already-playable bowl-backs around in that price range, or slightly higher. I can't quite discern the neck angle from the pics, nor check the string height when it's not strung.

Unless you really want a bowl-back. for its distinctive sound, I'd recommend getting a same-price all-solid-wood student grade instrument, assuming it's better than the one you're playing now. Both the Rover and the bowl-back will require set-up --

but the bowl-back may require repair as well. In any case, I wouldn't buy the bowl-back unless and until an experienced repair tech gave it a thorough look-over, assuming the seller would cooperate in such inspection.

[LadysSolo]

If it were local to me (it's not,) I would give (maybe) $125 for it, I can put the bridge back in place, it looks in good shape overall, and if I could look at the neck and body "in person." I use gig backs at home for my bowl-backs.

[brunello97]

Ed's right. The playability is everything. As Allen says, it is nearly impossible to tell from the photos. You're going to have to go have a look if you want to know. The fact that it was kept in a case is positive. The looks of those broken strings isn't promising.

Take a straight edge ruler with you when you go see it. Set one edge on the nut and the other on the bridge (position the bridge just a bit to the neck side of the cant -- or bend - in the mandolin's top.)

Using another measure tool (a precise one) measure the distance from the bottom of your straight edge ruler to the top of the 12th fret on the instrument's neck.

Measure carefully. Very carefully.
If it is 1/8", I would recommend buying it. 3/16" or more, then I would follow Allen's advice.

Looks like a mandolin out of Chicago. Lyon and Healy, likely, given the profile of the headstock, which was what was used on many of their "American Conservatory" line instruments. Note...this is not an American Conservatory line instrument. L+H mixed and matched parts for the many, many mandolins they made for other dealers, for their own label, or sold without any label. They made good stuff at all price points, though.

The top wood looks in great shape, the rosewood bowl is lovely. The "tree of life" inlay is nice. Tuners look good. The "cloud" tailpiece is good....probably worth $40 on its own. It looks like an "ebonized" fretboard rather than proper ebony, which is perhaps the one obvious lesser element.

Nothing wrong with starting out on a bowlback! I'd encourage it.....

Mick

[Bill Kammerzell]

I'll guess you are local to Orange County CA. I know here in Maryland almost anytime I go to junk shops, pawn shops or consignment shops or "antique" shops there is always a bowl back hanging up or laying around. I just never had a thing for them. I'll generally pick one up and play around with it but that's it. In my experience they are generally overpriced. For whatever reason the sellers seem to think that "Old" translates into valuable. I've had better luck buying imports like a Kentucky or two I have found. Even then, those are overvalued in most shops until I inform the seller that Kentucky mandolins have never been made in the US. Plus, I never deal with anyone that doesn't accept offers.
Most pawn shop owners' eyes light up at the sight of even one, one hundred dollar bill.

[Jim Garber]

I agree with Mick above that it was made by Lyon & Healy probably for the retail trade and looks to be around the same level of quality as their American Conservatory line. If you are able to look at it and it looks like it is playable it could be a nice mandolin. This also assume you want a bowlback. Some folks don't want to bother with them.

[NickR]

The tuners, tailpiece and bridge are probably worth $75-$100. However, you are not buying it to pull it apart and although it looks attractive it is a fairly low end mandolin judging by the number of staves. If it can be strung up and played then it is worth the price. If it is strung up and is not playable then it is a potentially expensive liability or an ornament. I am lucky enough to have someone behind me that repairs my instruments for a fraction of what others charge, so my mistakes can be remedied. I think it looks very pretty but unless you are happy to spend on making it play, it is worth avoiding. I have bought what look like junk mandolins but they have been okay but I bought them for parts and was surprised that they were okay. You NEVER can tell from photos by themselves! If you are buying from a musician then you may get an objective assessment of the instrument but from someone that has unearthed an old instrument, it's just down to luck what you are buying.

[J.Albert]

If you're "new to mandolins", and are looking for a good instrument on which to learn...
... that AIN'T what you're lookin' for.

[brunello97]

If you're "new to mandolins", and are looking for a good instrument on which to learn...
... that AIN'T what you're lookin' for.

And why would that be, presuming that it may be in playable condition as described above and simply in need of some new -- extra light gauge -- strings?

Mick

[martianshark]

Thanks for the significant amount of feedback. Based on responses, I might consider grabbing it if they go below 100 and I'm feeling adventurous.

Seems like there's a lot of attention on the fact that it's a bowlback. Is the difference between bowlbacks and other mandos that significant? Presumably an A or F style is a little easier to hold, but is sound difference notable?

Also, what kind of music do you want to play?

Not completely sure. Prog/metal is actually my comfort zone for listening, but if I get the hang of mando I'll likely use it for folk (Irish). I'm already ok at guitar, uke, and a little bass.

[yankees1]

I would pass !

[allenhopkins]

...Seems like there's a lot of attention on the fact that it's a bowlback. Is the difference between bowlbacks and other mandos that significant? Presumably an A or F style is a little easier to hold, but is sound difference notable?...

This is an issue that may generate some strong opinions, especially from bowl-back players who resent having these instruments "dissed" as being unsuitable for beginners (hey, Bill Monroe learned on a bowl-back, before be bought his A-4).

Bowl-backs are more difficult to hold, and to play standing up, but that's not something you couldn't overcome. I own and play several bowl-backs, mostly for historical programs, and if you use a thong or shoelace as a "strap," you can keep a bowl-back in a comfortable playing position.

Bowl-backs, in general, have less bass and a more clear, treble sound than "flat"-backs (which sometimes have carved, arched backs and tops). They are not generally used for bluegrass, blues, jazz, or similar styles, though there are exceptions; you find them mostly used by classical and ethnic music players.

Bowl-backs are also seen as more fragile than more "modern" styles, and, due to their almost universal lack of neck reinforcement or adjustable truss rods, can be subject to neck problems -- especially if over-strung, as they often are. Bowl-back players use extra light strings, not subjecting the lighter structure of their instruments to the string tension that's acceptable for flat-top or arch-top instruments. In the bowl-backs' favor, almost all the ones you'll find, especially the older instruments will be all solid woods, not plywood, and built with more care and better materials than many modern "factory" inexpensive mandolins.

The "standard" mandolin in the US -- though not necessarily in Europe -- is now an arch-top (either heat-pressed or carved), f-hole model. That's not to say that everyone plays that type, but if you look at mandolins available in the student price range, this is petty much what you'll find.

You can learn the basics on any kind of mandolin, if it's properly set up and structurally playable. In my earlier post, I suggested an arch-top, f-hole model, imported from Asia, as a suitable learner instrument. If you're drawn to the bowl-back, no reason you shouldn't get one, with the considerations outlined above.

[Jim Garber]

I agree 100% with Allen. I don't diss bowlbacks—in fact, I have a closetful of them and I play some excellent ones. But the price for that one would be reasonable if it doesn't need work. If playable, them change the strings and have a go at it. You will get into mandolin and probably will end up with a more common one anyway.

[brunello97]

..... I might consider grabbing it if they go below 100 and I'm feeling adventurous.

"Firm price. No offers."

Might put a dent in that plan.

Mick

[LadysSolo]

"Firm price. No offers."

Might put a dent in that plan.

Mick

Some people say that until their item sits for awhile, then they start reducing the price or they add "OBO" to their ad. Seen it happen all too often...…

[martianshark]

Yep, that's my thinking. If they're actually firm, I'll just walk away. But from what it sounds like, it's unlikely anyone will actually risk 150 for it.

[Roger Adams]

Reasonable? Sure, if it is playable. Looks pretty decent in the pics, so it may be worth a $150 bet. If you can go check it out, Mick's advise in #7 seems solid to me. Hard to argue with a man that wears an Open Road Stetson.

[brunello97]

Yep, that's my thinking. If they're actually firm, I'll just walk away. But from what it sounds like, it's unlikely anyone will actually risk 150 for it.

Mebbe. But if the neck is in good, playable condition, $150 is a pretty good price. Not likely to find something much cheaper that is in such cosmetic condition ---once again, if it is playable. If you want it, I'd go get it.

You might contact the seller and ask for some additinal shots from the side of the mandolin with a straight edge on the neck to check out the neck condition and save you a drive. Just this week, I was checking out a nice maple-bowled Favilla on Ebay which looked in great shape until I requested some side views....which showed the top sunk in just enough to throw the neck off. I bailed.

I doubt anyone would buy this sight unseen, which would be pretty silly. Anyone would want to see it in person. Somebody might quibble and say "It's only worth $125!" but that would be pretty silly. If it were mine--and was playable--I certainly wouldn't sell it below $100. That would be pretty silly.

I do have an actual American Conservatory that I would let go for <$100. The neck is in fine, playble condition but it has some cosmetic "issues" that this one doesn't. Asking much more for it would be pretty silly of me. And it does have a proper ebony fretboard.

Mick