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Thread: Thor's Hammer

  1. #1

    Default Thor's Hammer

    Given the contentiousness of the original posts about this builder I am hoping this new thread may be allowed to proceed. I understand I may misjudge the situation.

    Anyway...I have spent exactly seven days with Wienman F5(number 4). History shows me that I have a tendency to let my enthusiasm exceed my sober analysis of the instrument in hand. With my comments as the backdrop, here are my .02 on this particular mandolin.

    The F5 traveled by ground without string tension for 9 days from Nashville, due to holiday schedules etc. Upon opening the case which is a Bobelock hard-shell with a cover. I've not had one of these cases in front of me before. They lock & unlock by simply flipping two latches straight down. A sturdy, easy to use, functional case.
    Upon glancing at the instrument, I immediately experienced the sense of an earlier era. I am in no means an expert on what constitutes an authentic Loar era F5 mandolin. At the same time the Wienman just appears right to my eyes. The Vintage by Design website which is the builders online presence describes access to a family Loar. It appears that access has fostered and translated into a replica of their own Gibson Loar F5.

    My initial impression of holding the Wienman F5 again brought me a sense of touching something older than what logic dictates. Moderately sized, sturdy neck profile supports a light weight instrument. Attractive silver tuners and tailpiece. The sunburst is warmer looking in person than in an online photo imho. I would describe it as a honey/tobacco burst. You may call it something else. One aspect I noticed immediately was the tight grained the Adirondack spruce top. Its an outstanding piece of Red Spruce in my view. The Michigan Red Maple used on the back and sides areas as well, striking in appearance.

    Taking on string tension..the Wienman responded so smoothly when I brought it up to pitch. All four courses were smooth. Yes, some of it surely relates to quality of tuner but it must also relate to the overall balance of the neck joint, tail piece and head-stock alignment. Outstanding in this subtle yet important aspect.

    Sound....
    I have been trying to decide how best to describe my experience in this area since last Tuesday. Chronological order of the experience seems appropriate. And, perhaps some context of most recent similar experience helps in describing my week. Within the last couple of years I have been very fortunate to have had access to a variety of new instruments. Northfield Artist Series F5, Red Diamond A5, Apitius F5, Tyler White F5, Don Dryer A5, Matt Ruhland A5's, Nichols Road F5.
    My most common experience with picking up and playing a new instrument has been nearly immediate satisfaction. It seems to me at least that each instrument "warms up" after a few minutes of strumming, chopping or picking. Some take slightly longer to warm up than others but all of them respond given a few minutes of playing.
    When I picked up this lovely, vintage looking and feeling F5 last Tuesday, I was shocked.
    I could not believe what my ears were telling me. This hurts to say but in truth, I was disappointed. Low volume, poor tone, felt kinda clunky. Wow. I sat the mandolin down and just stared at it. How in the world could I have been so wrong. Most everything i read online was positive. Some of it especially positive from well known pickers. Now, I know every instrument is different and sometimes a particular piece even from the best in the world don't quite have "it".

    Two days later...same thing. My head was spinning. I like the gentlemen who worked on this instrument. I like the vendor in Nashville. I traded items, pawned things and basically did financial gymnastics to be able to pull this off and yet, a total dud. So disappointing. I didn't know what to do. So...i didn't do anything.

    Friday....the beginning of the end...thought about changing the strings but didn't. Thought about taking it to my buddy and respected builder here in the Northwest, but didn't. Thought about calling the vendor and the builder and explaining as much as I regretted the situation I would need to ship the instrument back for a refund...but didn't. Friday afternoon, finishing up my work week. I left the instrument sitting out in my office because of how pretty it is. No matter how it sounded it is a striking thing of beauty. At the end of my day, I plucked the E string...hmm...it seemed a bit different. It wasn't sweet exactly but really clear. So I picked it up, and yes, it was rather pleasingly clear. In fact, I was surprised by its clarity. Many times to warm a new instrument up I will play tremolos. I will play them on all strings from the first fret all the way of the neck. Each and every string. I did that for about 30 minutes at the end of the day last Friday. Upon concluding this activity, I was introduced to what my good friends now call, "Thor's Hammer". A thundering, loud, thunk of a musical instrument.

    I have clearly written way too much on this experience. Without going on any longer, I will simply say I have not seen a new instrument change in such a dramatic fashion. Wienman number 1804 within a period of 7 days has become a musical tool hard to put into words. Vintage Gibson vibe, feel and tone. So powerful with unparalleled clarity. In my view, a concert grade, professional quality, "new born Loar". It feels like thumping on a hollow log.

    Now, i see what the buzz is all about...

    A truly humbling, somewhat alarming experience. And, what a joyous ride. Thank you.

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  3. #2

    Default Re: Thor's Hammer

    Thank you for the detail of your experience. I am constantly reminded of how hard it is to judge a new instrument. I have heard significant changes in two instruments now. How is one to make a decision?
    Silverangel A
    Arches F style kit
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  5. #3
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    Default Re: Thor's Hammer

    I personally have no experience with this builder, so can’t comment from that perspective, but had a similar, if not so drastic, an experience with my Skip Kelley A5. It also has a red spruce top, my first such mandolin. First impression was extremely positive on fit and finish, build quality, and playability, which is on par with Josh Pinkham’s Red Diamond and a Giacomel I played that are the two best (including 2 Loars) I’ve been blessed to play. Tone was nice, but a little quiet, a little tight. Thanks to this forum I have been well educated about the “opening up” phenomenon that seems to be a bit more prominent with red spruce, so I resisted the urge to send it back and just keep wailing on my well broken in Silverangel, which I’ve also greatly enjoyed. I played the Kelley daily for a couple of weeks and noted subtle improvement each day, but the epiphany came when playing at church with a group about 6 weeks in. We rehearsed pretty hard for about 2 hours before the service, and it just came alive. Tone, volume, and all with an easy, light touch. It’s continued to improve with more play, and I’m excited to see where it is in a couple of years.

    Props to these gentlemen who are taking classic designs and continuing to elevate them. Enjoy your new mandolin!!

    Brick,it’s tough with new instruments. I’ve played a couple I thought were great and then couldn’t stand on return to the same store a couple of weeks later, and vice-versa. But, I’d never buy one I didn’t like at baseline. Already very good with potential to be outstanding is very different than a dud that might or might not develop over time. The Kelley was very good at the outset, and has already become outstanding to me (and those I play with have noticed as well). I can pull decent tone out of my first mandolin, which was a bit of an eBay dud, but it still ain’t great. Hard to know, though...
    Chuck

  6. #4
    Registered User EvanElk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thor's Hammer

    What an awesome essay. I hope I get to check out Thor's Hammer one of these days here in Portland
    2003 John Sullivan F5 "Roy"
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  7. #5
    Mandolin user MontanaMatt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thor's Hammer

    Some members will insist that new mandolins don't wake up, and the toneRite could never work.
    You just learned to listen better
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  8. #6
    Registered User Kevin Stueve's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thor's Hammer

    or his technique adjusted to the new instrument
    2012 Weber Bitterroot F5.

  9. #7
    Worlds ok-ist mando playr Zach Wilson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thor's Hammer

    Great read! Thanks for sharing.

    This story reminds of when I first received my Weber Yellowstone. It just sounded dead... for like a year Then as time passed and it was played more and more a beautiful sound started to grow! I'm glad for the change.

  10. #8

    Default Re: Thor's Hammer

    Or the instrument got acclimated to the new climate.
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  11. #9

    Default Re: Thor's Hammer

    I liked my Arches kit a lot when I first strung it up. It got better over the last three months. Could be the Adi spruce thing. You just never know what will happen down the line with playing time.

    With guitars, I like them about 30 years in.
    Silverangel A
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  12. #10
    Registered User Jim DeSalvio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thor's Hammer

    Just speculation on my part, but the fact that the instrument shipped without string tension, could explain some of this. Add an adi top, and I can see why it took some time to start sounding great. When I do a string change on a guitar, I always remove all the old strings first, tidy things up, and re-string. I NEVER remove all the strings on a mandolin, instead doing one at a time. Of course, I do not want the bridge to move, but I just do not like to release all the tension on the top of a mandolin. I feel like that disturbs "the force"!!!

    And I am firmly in the camp that playing/vibration of the top is key. I use a Tone Rite on both guitars and mandolins. I recently purchased an inexpensive Loar for office use, and put the Tone Rite on it for a good week. For a $300.00 mandolin, it sounds great! Would have taken me weeks or months to get that top moving that much.

    Congrats on what sounds like a great instrument.
    Jim D

  13. #11
    Registered User Dave Fultz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thor's Hammer

    Strings settle into the saddle, the nut, onto the hooks, the winds around the tuning posts tighten, the bridge settles in, the wood sucks up or exhales moisture as it acclimates to the locale. Strings burnish and stretch, ears adjust, necks bend, tops compress, and angels breathe upon it.

    Ive bought several guitars that grew like that. I’ve a Humingbird I bought from a guy in Texas. It took a year of Ohio climate to become a loud beast of a guitar.

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  14. #12

    Default Re: Thor's Hammer

    Click image for larger version. 

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    After having spent a couple of weeks with the Wienman now, its such a pleasure to play. I had a chance to perform with it last Friday evening in Portland. Its simply the best new mandolin I have played. Certainly within the Gibson camp at least. Vintage vibe, tone and play-ability. I feel very fortunate.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  16. #13
    Registered User Denman John's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thor's Hammer

    Thanks for sharing your story and pictures. It's a beautiful mandolin with all the right touches. I'd love to hear how it sounds as I've never heard a Wienman before.

    Enjoy it in good health.
    John
    ... not all those who wander are lost ...

  17. #14
    Registered User EvanElk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thor's Hammer

    Yes Old Growth, post a video or Zoom clip! I love the light sunburst color. Reminds me of my Sullivan Click image for larger version. 

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  18. #15
    Registered User darylcrisp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thor's Hammer

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Growth View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    After having spent a couple of weeks with the Wienman now, its such a pleasure to play. I had a chance to perform with it last Friday evening in Portland. Its simply the best new mandolin I have played. Certainly within the Gibson camp at least. Vintage vibe, tone and play-ability. I feel very fortunate.
    the case in this picture, is that the Bobelock hard-shell? If so, would you care to elaborate on it, weight, is it fiberglass, do you like it?
    Is the case cover nylon or something else?
    thank you
    d

  19. #16

    Default Re: Thor's Hammer

    Hi Folks,

    Thank you all for your time in commenting. I go back and forth on my comfort level with recording. What I can say, is its quick and easy to hear what a Wienman F5 sounds like at "Vintage by Design". The Wienman homepage offers several recordings/videos of the first few F5's. All of the performers are professionals playing their own instruments.

    Evan...wow, you are right. Your Sullivan F5 does look quite a lot like the Wienman sitting next to me. Cool..
    Daryl...you are also absolutely correct about the hard shell case being the Bobelock. Its lightweight, strong-ish and I hadn't thought about it but yeah its likely fiberglass. It does have a useful tight mesh "over-coat" which I like a lot. The case functions well. So far, I like it a good deal.Click image for larger version. 

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  20. #17

    Default Re: Thor's Hammer

    That’s a great looking mandolin, Old Growth. Love the colour - as you say honey tobacco burst. Enjoy!

  21. #18

    Default Re: Thor's Hammer

    Wow, what a beautiful mandolin!
    Play it in good health.

    Fwiw, i veryy recently bought a long desired 2011 martin cs guitar.
    It is universally acclaimed a fine guitar.
    Similarly, upon arrival, i was disappointed.

    Over the course of a few days playing, a huge transformation.
    Fwiw, I already had an almost identically specd guitar for comparison .

    Wood, it seems to me, does reawaken.

  22. #19
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thor's Hammer

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Growth View Post
    Given the contentiousness of the original posts about this builder I am hoping this new thread may be allowed to proceed. I understand I may misjudge the situation.
    I don't understand what you are talking about here. I only see posts about this relatively new builder and positive comments. Are you perhaps confusing him with another mandolin maker with a similar name?
    Jim

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  23. #20

    Default Re: Thor's Hammer

    Thanks for the comments gentlemen..its an attractive F5 no doubt about, especially in person. And especially in the early evening light(true mando geek here
    Enjoy your Martin Steve!

  24. #21
    My Florida is scooped pheffernan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thor's Hammer

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    I don't understand what you are talking about here. I only see posts about this relatively new builder and positive comments. Are you perhaps confusing him with another mandolin maker with a similar name?
    I'm guessing that he is referring to this one: https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/t...-Gruhn-s/page4
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  25. #22

    Default Re: Thor's Hammer

    Hi All...Denman John,
    I did eventually get to record my Wienman F5. Through the kindness of the builders the recording has been uploaded on their media page. http://www.vintagebydesign.com
    I hope this is ok to share with my cafe friends.
    Last edited by Old Growth; Mar-19-2019 at 10:44pm.

  26. #23

    Default Re: Thor's Hammer

    You and the mandolin sound great it that clip. Nice composition too. I can hear why you like it so much.
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  27. #24

    Default Re: Thor's Hammer

    Thank you Don..I appreciate you taking the time in listening to the piece. I was definitely under the influence of "Cadfael" the morning I turned on my Zoom H6. The friend who recorded the flamenco guitar part took the time to write out all the "crooked meters". I am currently hoping to entice some good Samaritan bow player i.e Violin, Viola or Cello to add their texture to the piece.

    The Wienman F5 i have is super easy to record. Great clarity and a powerful mando. Thanks folks.

  28. #25
    Registered User Eric F.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Thor's Hammer

    Oh, that clip is really nice.

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