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Thread: Go Deeper, Not Wider

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Go Deeper, Not Wider

    John, I’m with you on fountain pens and watches. I keep looking,but am satisfied with what I own and love using/wearing them. Being a retired middle school band director, I was forced to go ‘wide’ on knowing how to play many instruments. Trumpet, however is what I get paid to play. I own about 45 of them and it’s hard to let them go. I just started to play cello, so my mind is trying to figure out how many trumpets I have to sell to get a halfway decent cello. I sold a few trumpets 3 years ago to have Marty Jacobsen build me his #37 Koi themed mandolin which is great.

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  3. #27
    String-Bending Heretic mandocrucian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Go Deeper, Not Wider



    To BUY or not to buy...that is the question!
    Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
    The outlay and depletion of outrageous fortune$,
    Or take up reading new-age self-help babble against "the man",
    And by opposing "more stuff", to die,.... in a shed,.... in the rain.



    To shred or not to shred? Let me ponder...
    Whether it is nobler to know more and more
    about a little bit less,
    Only Monroe and no Jethro? (and defintely no rock n' roll)
    or paddygrass or bagpipes or even gitfiddle…

    "Hey Rock...watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat!"

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  5. #28
    Mediocre but OK with that Paul Busman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Go Deeper, Not Wider

    For me, I disagree with the premise. Over the years I've dabbled with a ton of things out of curiosity only to drop them sooner or later for lack of interest. At least I had the experience and taste of them, and sometimes they've led me in directions I wouldn't have discovered otherwise.
    Music is a great example...
    Quite a while back I was an avid recorder player. One night I heard the Chieftains on SNL and said to myself "I HAVE to learn to play that kind of music!". I figured the penny whistle was a logical choice since I thought it was similar to the recorder.It is and it isn't which is a whole topic in itself.
    It was my interest in Irish music that led me to try the mandolin which I may never have done otherwise.
    Through a long string of serendipitious events and coincidences, I ended up making Irish whistles, which has gained me friends worldwide.
    After a Punch Brothers concert, I was so blown away by Noam Pikelney* that I wanted to learn 5 string banjo.I got an inexpensive one and worked on it for a year or so,playing clawhammer and some Scruggs style. I kind of liked it, but my interest flagged. Too much retuning. My main interest remained Irish music and while you CAN play that on a 5 string, the tenor is really more suited so I traded in the 5 string for a tenor and never looked back. Now, I can go to any Irish session and fit in on whistles,mandolin or banjo and have a ball doing it. I don't regret the false starts at all-- they led me to where I am now.

    *being blown away by Christ Thile was a given, the banjo was a surprise.Every member of The Punch Brothers is amazing and together they're incredible.
    For wooden musical fun that doesn't involve strumming, check out:
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  7. #29
    Registered User Ranald's Avatar
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    Default Re: Go Deeper, Not Wider

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Busman View Post
    being blown away by Christ Thile was a given
    "Christ Thile"? I know some are very devoted to him, but isn't that going a little too far?
    Robert Johnson's mother, describing blues musicians:
    "I never did have no trouble with him until he got big enough to be round with bigger boys and off from home. Then he used to follow all these harp blowers, mandoleen (sic) and guitar players."
    Lomax, Alan, The Land where The Blues Began, NY: Pantheon, 1993, p.14.

  8. #30
    Registered User Eric Platt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Go Deeper, Not Wider

    Quote Originally Posted by DougC View Post
    I think it is obvious that there is a issue of values being discussed. Just 'having stuff' seems to give in to the consumer culture. And 'playing with' musical toys is not the same as 'playing' an instrument with any skill worth listening to. Also there are people who just dabble and have no commitment towards team work.

    On the other hand, I think it is fun to 'play with' my 'toys'. However I have very strong feelings about quality and commitment. (as others have described here).

    Pebber Brown a really cool guitar instructor on youtube, a guy about my age (mid 60's) said something that I think of often. And I smile every time. He said that he could not think of anything that would 'get through' to the young, 'head strong' rock guitarists. Then he did have an idea. So this 'old hippie' looked right into the camera and said, "YOU SUCK!"
    It makes me laugh every time.
    My problem with that concept is we all suck to some extent. If I wanted to get mean, I'd say there are maybe a half dozen mandolin players in the Twin Cities who don't suck. And I will never be included in that group. Same for guitar, which I have almost given up after playing professionally for the last 15 years. Been told I stuck too often. So it's now a part of my psyche.
    Last edited by Eric Platt; Jan-07-2019 at 12:10pm. Reason: Spelling error.
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  10. #31
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    Default Re: Go Deeper, Not Wider

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranald View Post
    Here's an interesting article about getting deeper into what you've started, rather than continually "consuming" new interests, which I think is relevant to many of us at Mandolin Cafe. It begins:

    "I keep imagining a tradition I’d like to invent. After you’re established in your career, and you have some neat stuff in your house, you take a whole year in which you don’t start anything new or acquire any new possessions you don’t need.

    "No new hobbies, equipment, games, or books are allowed during this year. Instead, you have to find the value in what you already own or what you’ve already started.

    "You improve skills rather than learning new ones. You consume media you’ve already stockpiled instead of acquiring more."

    https://www.raptitude.com/2017/12/go-deeper-not-wider/
    This is a mindset I’ve been trying to adopt for the past couple years. I just found that life was filled with too much information without the means to do anything about it, too much stuff, but too little time and attention to devote to it all. Doing more with less is working better for me.
    ...

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  12. #32
    Registered User BoxCarJoe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Go Deeper, Not Wider

    All in all good advice.

    But getting to the correct "width" is very subjective.
    It would vary for everyone.

    No money to spend on endless toys anyway.

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  14. #33

    Default Re: Go Deeper, Not Wider

    Quote Originally Posted by Caleb View Post
    This is a mindset I’ve been trying to adopt for the past couple years. I just found that life was filled with too much information without the means to do anything about it, too much stuff, but too little time and attention to devote to it all. Doing more with less is working better for me.
    Such is the dilemma of contemporary/technological culture; producer of ever more information - the vast majority of which is simply inanity, leaving one to dwell in absurdity in adherence to mainstream dictums/values. There is an antidote - but it may involve leaving everything familiar behind.

    Wrt music: I've found there is infinite information in a single note, if I've done the preparation to perceive it.

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  16. #34

    Default Re: Go Deeper, Not Wider

    It comes down to motive. Why are you doing something? For some, they wonder why anyone would spend any amount of time on something that doesn't earn money. I know business owners whose whole psyche is earning money. They are truly happy doing it, and would be miserable retired. Others are happy to be working diligently just getting to I don't suck on mandolin.

    I met a cousin of my grandfather's who built houses well into his eighties. He'd buy a lot in small town Iowa, build the house in summer and do the inside in winter. He just loved building, had no deadline and it was done when it was done. I think he lived into his nineties. You need something to do or you just fade away. Mandolin is as good as anything and keeps the brain working.
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  18. #35
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    Default Re: Go Deeper, Not Wider

    Quote Originally Posted by Br1ck View Post
    It comes down to motive. Why are you doing something? For some, they wonder why anyone would spend any amount of time on something that doesn't earn money. I know business owners whose whole psyche is earning money. They are truly happy doing it, and would be miserable retired. Others are happy to be working diligently just getting to I don't suck on mandolin.

    I met a cousin of my grandfather's who built houses well into his eighties. He'd buy a lot in small town Iowa, build the house in summer and do the inside in winter. He just loved building, had no deadline and it was done when it was done. I think he lived into his nineties. You need something to do or you just fade away. Mandolin is as good as anything and keeps the brain working.

    Yesterday I was hanging out with a friend at a coffeehouse gig, watching my wife play violin with a harpist friend. My friend said that she went thru a couple of violin teachers and was going to quit because the chemistry just did not work. But the harpist, her friend, introduced her to my wife, a violin teacher. The 'chemistry' worked and she said it is the reason she still plays violin.

    It does come down to what motivates you. I suppose a negative motivation would be "I don't want to suck on mandolin". But I think that is just something to be aware of. Rather I appreciate seeing others do a 'good job' and having fun with music and the instruments.

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    Default Re: Go Deeper, Not Wider

    Going deeper into anything creates an appreciation for how deep other things may go that we had no idea about or interest. It creates tolerance for those who go deep into things we may think are trivial, or besides the point, or given, like the history of railroads in the west, the history of individualism in the UK, hard science in ancient Greece, the history of fashion in the middle ages, etc., the psychology of domestic dogs.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

    The entire staff
    funny....

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  22. #37

    Default Re: Go Deeper, Not Wider

    Stew Copeland's whimsical ruminations on "wide and deep" https://youtu.be/ouiJFoIvPcI

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  24. #38
    Registered User DougC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Go Deeper, Not Wider

    Quote Originally Posted by catmandu2 View Post
    Stew Copeland's whimsical ruminations on "wide and deep" https://youtu.be/ouiJFoIvPcI
    O.K. This guy has too many toys and is having too much fun and has too good a video editor to be remotely acceptable. He even says that 90% of jazz SUCKS. (I want to be him...). And look at that studio. Nope, just too much money spent for irreverent nonsense while others (like me) worry about the next paycheck. Did you notice that NONE of the stringed instruments were tuned. And NO mandolin content. I'm gonna flame about this all day...
    Last edited by DougC; Jan-10-2019 at 12:02pm. Reason: BTW God lives in Belgium - and he's an ...

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  26. #39

    Default Re: Go Deeper, Not Wider

    He's a hoot. He seems to have a certain energy toward this stuff that I feel akin.

    Fwiw, I spied a mandobird in his garden on another clip I posted here somewhere...so I dispensed with the *no mandolin content* caution.

    He says his dad told him - Whatever your "instrument" is, you're more than that...
    They're all your instruments..


    He says he experiences the impetus to create as a river that's always flowing; you just dip into it, access the resource...

    I feel like this. There's always too much music in my head. I just get out whatever I can through technique/discipline. Psyche and techne. Like him I've always been obsessed with the medium and the tools and techniques. I've always felt - music/art is a most effective research (in a variety of domains); and musical instruments are highly effective tools to express the creative urge, of which there seems no limit..

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  28. #40

    Default Re: Go Deeper, Not Wider

    94 year-old Marshall Allen, and Danny Thompson. If you're inclined, there're lots of thoughts on music and things related in this - https://youtu.be/64_4Btutc34

    The Berlin concert was one of the vids shown to the studio audience. Interesting to hear them speak on touring overseas - https://youtu.be/qtHmqbnuZQs

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  30. #41

    Default Re: Go Deeper, Not Wider

    I am a bourgeois pig.
    It seems, now that i have retired and am more or less secure, i have indulged far more than my previous self. Due to gigging, i have gone from one “soul mate” martin for 45 years, to 5 over five years. And other gig stuff.....

    Books, music, practing my 4 instruments, model trains, poetry, vocal lessons,learning banjo, trying to write poetry and tunes, exercise.

    Consumerism, feel good short lived material opiate, etc.

    And, like Mr. Toad, i like exploring new things. And, sometimes they stick, sometimes not.

    Its a challenge going deep. Its discipline, and, overcoming plateaus. And, impatience. Distractions, Too many things.
    Otoh, this is a revealing learning tool.

    However, i do agree with the op. Mindfulness, focus, is a thing of deep reward.

    I wanted to try violin, but was sure i would have to forgo all other instruments. Theres hope....

    Ill give it a go.....
    Last edited by stevedenver; Jan-15-2019 at 10:11am.

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  32. #42

    Default Re: Go Deeper, Not Wider

    I really like the whole concept but I realize it's not for everyone.

    I've actually been thinking about this recently. When I really started to take the guitar seriously, I had one instrument and I literally played it to death. I played it for hours every day, took it everywhere, it was a friend and companion - I imagine many of us have had similar experiences. I learned so much on that instrument that really I started to see past it - it was my guitar, my way of making music, instead of a brand/model/year etc. It was a Seagul S6 and did I go deep!

    I was also young, poor, lonely etc!

    Fast forward to a few years ago and I'm comfortable, middle class, middle aged, and for the last decade I've been flipping guitars like burgers - a few a year, always novel and exciting at first, but the shine would wear off and I'd trade or sell it. Going wide with every different model I could find. Again I think lots of players might be able to relate. Even while I was in the depths of GAS there was a sense of disappointment or emptiness that I was usually able to ignore, but I think I understood that these different instruments were actually distracting me from the music itself.

    When I decided to get back into mandolin a few years ago I bought a good instrument and as luck would have it, it's become my 'seagull'.

    When I was young I had no choice but to go 'deep', but now it's my goal. YMMV!
    Last edited by Chris Browne; Jan-15-2019 at 2:36pm.

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  34. #43
    Registered User Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
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    Default Re: Go Deeper, Not Wider

    PS -

    Re going deeper, not wider: Been playing guitar since my teens, but didn't come to mando until my sixties. So, after stumbling around on mando for a while, decided that life (at this point!) is too short to try to become fluent in a lot of styles.

    So I'm just focusing on blues. Got bitten by the blues mando bug two summers ago at a music camp where Rich del Grosso was teaching.

    Making a little bit of progress, too, learning to hold my own. (My own what is an open question.)

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  36. #44

    Default Re: Go Deeper, Not Wider

    Ya, in my guitar days it was Bach, and some of the standard classical repertoire. But Bach was it - and it captivated me for 20+ years.

    Then along came folk music (and mndln)...

    These days, I'm happy playing folk forms from everywhere...and little Bach-type figures show up here and there - of course - in the more continental-influenced material.

    *ah yes, and for 20+ years I had but one instrument.
    Last edited by catmandu2; Jan-16-2019 at 10:39am.

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  38. #45
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    Default Re: Go Deeper, Not Wider

    Follow the passion. Different strokes for different folks. The drummer in the group I'm in (his name is Wyll) is a collector of many things. We have a saying "Where there's a Wyll, there's a yard sale" You should see his house, pathways through stuff like the archives at the Smithsonian. It is possible to go deeper and wider and also higher and lower. His percussion instrument collection is second to none. He collects guitars and basses and he plays neither. A year with only what you already have, Ha. I'll mention this to him for a good laugh.

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  40. #46

    Default Re: Go Deeper, Not Wider

    I'm now at a musical point where everything, including every instrument, is inter-related.

    Quite a few years ago, I starts thinking about how stringed instruments started developing from the archery bow. Resonators were added, strings were stopped with fingers/nails on lyres, surfaces to press strings against developed (fingerboards/fretboards), all while some stringed instruments like harps and kanteles maximized other factors.

    Now my musical time is divided between mandolin/mandola/tenor guitar, and kantele/harp. On the latter, I'm doing not just classic harp technique and position, but also block-strumming and kantele/kokle/gusli techniques and position.

    A lot of this recent exploration was kicked off by re-reading the excellent book The Advancing Guitarist by Mick Goodrick. It's equally usable for any fretted instrument, and really helps one to master an instrument.

    I can definitely recommend pursuing mastery.
    ----

    Playing a funky oval-hole scroll-body mandolin, several mandolins retuned to CGDA, three CGDA-tuned Flatiron mandolas, two Flatiron mandolas tuned as octave mandolins,and a six-course 25.5" scale CGDAEB-tuned Ovation Mandophone.

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