unlearning a bad habit

[DaveGinNJ]

I've been playing mando about 10 weeks now. When I started I did not pay much attention to how to hold the pick, thinking it was not important. Now I see that I have been doing it wrong by holding it between the thumb and fingertips. I tried to do it the correct way but it has negatively impacted my playing. Any thoughts on fixing this?

[pops1]

Bad habits are hard to break, keep at it and it will get easier.

[MikeZito]

There are lots of players who play technically 'wrong' - but it doesn't stop them from playing.

If you are comfortable with your 'improper' technique, and it does not impeded your progress, don't think of it as 'wrong', just think of it as 'different'.

Yes, give the 'proper' technique a legitimate try - but if it doesn't work out, don't sweat it.

[prairieschooner]

I have been trying to hold the pick "correct" as well. It does make things easier if it isn't too late.
Try watching this by Mike Marshall but take everything with a grain of salt:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmagoBQunZI

Best!

[Gelsenbury]

It's normal that unlearning and relearning technique will cause a regression in the quality of your playing. I'm a mediocre player and have experienced several of these regressions, with many more certainly still to come.

The real questions are about whether your existing technique is holding you back or the new technique would allow you to reach the next level in your playing. If the answer to either of these questions is yes, the temporary regression may be a price worth paying. If not, my instinct would be not to worry too much about it - but then again, I play only for enjoyment. Your standards and goals may be different.

Another thing to consider, and one that others have already mentioned, is that non-standard technique isn't necessarily bad technique. There are important differences between players (such as hand size, finger bend, and flexibility), picks, and so on. For example, Mike Marshall lifts his fingers more than some other players because he has big hands; and Robin Bullock plants his little finger rather than keeping the wrist free. Both are amazing players. It may be worth thinking carefully about why you started playing with your current technique. Perhaps not knowing the standard technique wasn't the only reason.

[MontanaMatt]

Operant conditioning...reward good technique, punish bad!

[Valerie Jestice]

I had that same habit when I started playing. Start holding the pick correctly, and don’t let yourself go back.

[yankees1]

I've been playing mando about 10 weeks now. When I started I did not pay much attention to how to hold the pick, thinking it was not important. Now I see that I have been doing it wrong by holding it between the thumb and fingertips. I tried to do it the correct way but it has negatively impacted my playing. Any thoughts on fixing this?

This is the reason I think you should begin with an instructor when you are first beginning to learn the mandolin as it takes a lot more time and practice to unlearn bad habits and relearn the correct way !

[Pete Martin]

Any old habit is hard to break. You just need to make sure your new technique is being followed and keep working. Soon you'll be very glad you changed.

[Br1ck]

I was trying to learn a run from a Monroe tune, I believe it's called Fair Play, and it just wasn't happening. I asked my pro viola playing daughter how she would finger it. Well she changed where I made the shift. I said great, I've played it wrong a hundred times. She said it would take a hundred to get back to 0 then another hundred to get it down. She was right, but I can do it now.

[Toni Schula]

Lucky one!
You have identified a bad habbit within 10 weeks, so you should be able to unlearn it within the next 10 weeks.
For me this is sort of no time at all. Give it a try - good luck!

[Mark Miller]

Absolutely make the change. Listen to and watch that Mike Marshall video. I had been playing for about two-three years by the time I realized that some basic right hand technique issues were holding me back. You’re probably not in a position to know how much that might be true for you after only ten weeks. It took me a good couple of months to rebuild my right hand but I am so glad I did. I have a degree of control I never had before. Put in the time and effort now and it will really pay off.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Try 'unlearning' a tune that you've been playing incorrectly for a few years. I got a small part of Bill Monroe's tune 'Old Daingerfield' very slightly wrong when i first learned it. Whilst playing it one day,picking along with the tune on my PC,i realised that i'd got 3 or 4 notes 'wrong' (please don't ask me how !). I tried to play the phrase correctly ( i knew how),but i couldn't override what i'd been playing for so long. I had to leave the tune alone completely for 18 + months,until i'd almost forgotten how to play it at all,& then re-learn it correctly. 'Muscle memory' is fine when you get it right !!,
Ivan

[DaveGinNJ]

It's normal that unlearning and relearning technique will cause a regression in the quality of your playing. I'm a mediocre player and have experienced several of these regressions, with many more certainly still to come.

The real questions are about whether your existing technique is holding you back or the new technique would allow you to reach the next level in your playing. If the answer to either of these questions is yes, the temporary regression may be a price worth paying. If not, my instinct would be not to worry too much about it - but then again, I play only for enjoyment. Your standards and goals may be different.

Another thing to consider, and one that others have already mentioned, is that non-standard technique isn't necessarily bad technique. There are important differences between players (such as hand size, finger bend, and flexibility), picks, and so on. For example, Mike Marshall lifts his fingers more than some other players because he has big hands; and Robin Bullock plants his little finger rather than keeping the wrist free. Both are amazing players. It may be worth thinking carefully about why you started playing with your current technique. Perhaps not knowing the standard technique wasn't the only reason.

I really have no way to determine for certain if this "bad technique" was holding me back, but I don't think it did so far. However, I worry it may hold me back in the future and maybe its easier to correct now. So I am gong back to some songs that I've "mastered" and re-learning to play them using the correct technique. It is frustrating but my own fault for forging ahead too quickly.

[Jim Garber]

Now I see that I have been doing it wrong by holding it between the thumb and fingertips.

I read this sentence a few times but am not sure what is wrong with holding a pick that way. I have been playing for 44 years or so and I am trying to visualize how you would do it otherwise. Am I the only one who doesn't get it? Do you mean that we are not supposed to use the thumb?

[DaveGinNJ]

What I was doing was holding my 2 largest fingers straight out with the back of the pick against the fingertips and against the thumb on the other side

[Jim Garber]

What I was doing was holding my 2 largest fingers straight out with the back of the pick against the fingertips and against the thumb on the other side

Sounds like the problem is the "straight out" not the fingers. You mean you didn't curve your fingers?

[DaveGinNJ]

Sounds like the problem is the "straight out" not the fingers. You mean you didn't curve your fingers?

Maybe a little. The 2 books I have and online lessons show holding the pick between the thumb and the side of the curved-in 1st finger. I was holding it against the fingertips. The good news is after a few days of forcing myself to do it right, I am quickly regaining ground

[EdHanrahan]

... been playing mando about 10 weeks now. When I started ...

WHOA!! That small snippet speaks volumes about your current, uhmm, perspective on life! That's not a bad thing; it just is.

Trust me (with my own ever-more-rapidly-advancing age, er, I mean "experience") that, soon enough, the period in which you "were starting" will not be just the early part of the last 10 weeks, but the early part of the last 10 years, and later, even more. Whatever time & toil you invest now in the re-learning process will become either a) a long-forgotten memory, replaced by future triumphs, or b) a source of life-long joy that you took the time to do it right. Either way scores in the Big Win column, and that is definitely a good thing!

[panhead]

I started the same way as you describe with guitar, make the switch, it might take a few weeks but you will be glad you did.

[Gelsenbury]

What I was doing was holding my 2 largest fingers straight out with the back of the pick against the fingertips and against the thumb on the other side

If I understand correctly, this is what Simon Mayor calls the pencil grip. It's not wrong, just a different technique. Learn both, and sooner or later you'll favour the one that works better for you.