Advice on strings for antique bowl back?

[MandoNina]

I acquired an old G.Puglisi Reale Figli (1913) a while back and have finally had the time to get it into, what I hope is playable condition over christmas, but as I was putting on strings I started worrying about the tension. I used Ernie Ball Light Gauge (9,13,22,34), but soon felt unsure and thought I'd reach out to the cafe before going any further.

The mandolin has probably not been in use for many many years, and the neck has some cracks, but I'm also wondering if where the neck meets the sound hole could be an issue.









Any thoughts or recommendations would be appreciated!

Happy New Years

[August Watters]

When old mandolins start being played again is when they're most vulnerable to cracks. So please make sure it's been well-humidified before putting any string tension. I also wouldn't play it until my technician has looked it over thoroughly, for structural problems.

There aren't many choices for appropriate strings, at least not yet. The strings you mention (.09, 13, 22, 34) sound just a little heavy on the bass side, I generally wouldn't go higher than (09, 13, 21, 32). But string gauge is not the only factor, since material and construction also play a role. The GHS extra-light A240 strings (09, 13, 20, 32) are OK, but to me, not ideal -- the material is phosphor bronze, which didn't exist when this mandolin was made, and probably sounds different and carries a bit more string tension than what they had back then. For me, I'd much prefer a nickel-wound string for this kind of instrument.

Optima Lenzner Consort strings are made for this purpose (antique mandolins), so that's one option. Some will recommend the Dogal Calace RW92B, soft tension, but although I like these and have used these often on my modern concert mandolin, they're probably still too much tension for some old mandolins, especially an Italian like yours (which are often even more fragile than the American bowlbacks). Dogal Calace are high-tension strings by nature, designed for the modern Calace mandolin--thus the "soft tension" version may still be too much for antique instruments, which were generally designed for lower tension. There's also the problem that since the Dogal Calace strings they have a smaller diameter, they cause fret wear quickly -- especially on those tiny frets typical of the old Italian mandolins. I think a softer material is preferable.

So what to use? I've talked to several string makers about this dilemma, so far without success. I know one bowlback player who makes his own strings. Hoping for better solutions, but so far I'm piecing together sets from single strings.

[EdHanrahan]

When "repair & resurrection" guru Jake Wildwood went over my no-name '30s-ish bowlback, not particularly valuable, he strung it with 2 pairs of tenor banjo strings, .008 thru .028 being about the lightest you'll find.

[August Watters]

2 pairs of tenor banjo strings, .008 thru .028 being about the lightest you'll find.

Brilliant, thanks! Or, the "single loop end strings" section on juststrings.com has nickel-would and plain steel strings in the right gauges.

[MandoNina]

Thanks a lot August and Ed!

Unfortunately I don't have access to a technician or luthier so I'm on my own here. Well actually I'm far from it, thanks to you guys.
I will look around town and see if I can't find even lighter gauged strings, but I think maybe the tenor banjo string idea is a good one for my situation.
I do wonder about the sound though...Never heard a mandolin stringed with banjo strings, I think. If anyone has a sound clip that would be nice.

Also wondering what I can do to ensure the mandolin being "well-humidified" means, and if tuning to a lower octave for a few days or weeks before trying with the correct tension might help?

[August Watters]

[QUOTE=MandoNina;1694146]
I do wonder about the sound though...Never heard a mandolin stringed with banjo strings, I think. If anyone has a sound clip that would be nice.
/QUOTE]

There's no meaningful difference; what matters is the gauge and material of the string. And whether it has a loop or a ball on the end. For the straight steel (non-wrapped) strings, banjo strings should be identical to mandolin strings, except longer. For the wrapped strings, nickel will sound different than bronze, and the various types of bronze differ from each slightly -- but once again, the string doesn't know or care whether it's on a banjo or mandolin, or some other instrument. There are also small differences to discuss, depending on the thickness/material of the core vs. thickness of winding, but I doubt you're going to find any differences there, between mandolin and banjo strings. Unless you get into flatwound mandolin strings, but that's another conversation.

Also wondering what I can do to ensure the mandolin being "well-humidified" means, and if tuning to a lower octave for a few days or weeks before trying with the correct tension might help?[

If that "CR" in your location means Costa Rica, I'm going to guess you're in a warm, humid climate, so probably there's no concern there. Up here in the USA, old mandolins often sit around, unhumidified and drying out a little more each winter. Maybe it will take 20 or 80 years, but sooner or later there's a breaking point where old wood will split if there's not enough moisture to maintain its flexibility under stress. Sometimes you'll see old instruments that are in fine shape, until you start stressing them with string pressure. Believe me, I've learned this one the hard way -- you want to make sure your mandolin has been in a well-humidified (~45%) environment for a few weeks, before stressing the top.

Starting with lower tension by tuning down a half-step or a step is a pretty good idea, imho. You can get a feel for how the instrument is performing, without fully stressing the top and neck. If it's difficult to get the instrument all the way up to pitch, don't force it!

And it can't be said too often: quality mandolins were built more lightly 100 years ago than most are today, so they need lighter strings by today's standards. My preference is to start off light (perhaps .09-.13-.21-.30) and see how it responds. Often I'll go up a little bit at a time, searching for the ideal tension that gets the best performance without over-stressing and dampening the top. Every instrument is a little different. Good luck!

[EdHanrahan]

(Edit: Yikes! It took me so long to write this that August posted loong before I did; probably would have cut mine shorter.
Personal note:
August- You may -or may not!- recall that we spoke 2 months ago in northern Jersey when you played with John LaBarbera on his live soundtrack for Charlie Chaplain's "The Immigrant". That was a fun day!)

...Never heard a mandolin stringed with banjo strings, ...

Also wondering what I can do to ensure the mandolin being "well-humidified" means, ...

1) As a grand generality: "Steel" strings themselves, as opposed to nylon, have little idea what instrument they'll be installed on. Any "magic" is in the type of end (ball vs. twisted loop), print on the packaging, and the length to which they're cut. Even that last one - not so much as lots of mandolin strings would fit on guitars.

Just because a manufacturer puts strings together in a "set" doesn't mean that such a set will work for you. That's why August suggested simply ordering single strings in whatever size you might think appropriate, which in bulk should cost less.

1a) Yes, there are differences in string windings (80/20, phosphor bronze, more recently nickel, etc.) and coatings, or lack thereof, but little about them are relative to a type of instrument. (Other than acoustic vs. electric -w/ magnetic pickup- that's a totally different topic.). In my personal opinion, phosphor bronze is slightly denser than 80/20 so, for example, an .030 p-b string might be the equivalent of an .031 or .032 80/20 string. That's it; no magic in the chemistry, just in the mass.

1b) Plain, unwound strings are almost universally generic across all sizes and instruments.

(In the electric world mostly, there have been claims about strings' magnetic personality, cryogenic freezing, aura, and other such voo-doo; ignore them.)

Final string thought: Most strings are relatively cheap; experiment liberally!

2) Humidification is a huge topic all on it's own, and seasonal differences are a constant source of discussion and entertainment around here. The most concise intro I've seen is courtesy of the folks at Taylor guitars:
https://www.taylorguitars.com/suppor...oms-dry-guitar

2a) Some state that "I live near water, so humidification is not an issue". Yes it is. In most (non-desert, non-tropical) climates, even "humid" winter air is much dryer than dry summer air. And it's "relatively" even dryer after heated to house temperature (same moisture content but lower rel. hum. because warm air CAN absorb more moisture than cold air). Taylor gives you the case for in-case humidifiers, but a humidified music room or whole-house humidifier can help a lot.

2b) "Extreme" case? I found a cheapo Rover w/ wavy top because the bridge was WAY out of place. Took off the strings & bridge, sealed it in a plastic bag w/ damp sponge in a warm garage (over 80 in summer sun?), and checked it every week or so. After a month it looked pretty good, and now sits next to my TV chair!

Final Disclaimer: Other than decades of messing with, and messing up, guitars & mandolins, plus a dozen years of absorbing the wisdom of our Cafe cohorts, I have absolutely no certifiable authority to make any of these statements. You've been warned. And oh yeah: Enjoy!