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Thread: Beginner Seeking Advice - Guitar or Octave Mandolin?

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    Default Beginner Seeking Advice - Guitar or Octave Mandolin?

    I'm a beginner seeking some advice! I've been playing fiddle for at least 15 years and also have a mandolin that I enjoy playing around on. However, I also love to sing and need an instrument that can better accompany a solo vocalist. I've learned to play a handful of chords on a guitar that I've borrowed from a family member but the mandolin seems more intuitive for me since I have background with the violin. Any advice on whether I should pursue guitar further and invest in purchasing my own or should I invest in an octave mandolin? I'm a huge Sarah Jarosz fan so I'm leaning towards the octave mandolin but I'm having a difficult time deciding and would appreciate some advice from those more experienced than myself. I'm seeking the easiest route that will get me up and singing sooner!

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    Registered User Seonachan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beginner Seeking Advice - Guitar or Octave Mandolin?

    You could also go with a tenor guitar in octave mandolin tuning.

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    Default Re: Beginner Seeking Advice - Guitar or Octave Mandolin?

    Based on my experience of having played mandolin "continuously" for about 25 years (after a bunch of violin years) and purchasing a Mowry guitar-bodied OM a couple of months ago...and also owning (but not playing) a guitar...I would strongly recommend that you work toward a guitar-bodied OM. I have been quite surprised as to how well my small hands (and small brain) have been able to adapt to the 22.5" OM scale, and how fun and rewarding playing the OM is. Lots of doing "old chords" in a new way, of course. For two months I have played at least as much OM as mandolin, including playing four times in Public (with plenty of unexpected accolades--many of those people wanting to know all bout the OM as well). I guess I would say that coming from your violin/mandolin background, you will confront a smaller learning curve than you might expect. Well worth the effort for a wonderfully different instrument voice, an arguably more-compatible with your own voice,

    The "tenor-guitar with OM tuning" idea sounds like a great idea as well. I would love try that myself, someday. In fact, that might be an even better vocal combination--I am just guessing on this aspect, not having experienced a tenor guitar.

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    Default Re: Beginner Seeking Advice - Guitar or Octave Mandolin?

    If your primary need is for song accompaniment, there's a reason most singer/songwriters play guitar. It's usually the best tool for that job. Consider that it's going to be easier and cheaper to find a decent quality guitar.

    If you want to get into mando family instruments for this, I would recommend a bouzouki over an octave mandolin. You'll probably end up using a capo a fair amount and the added scale length, in my opinion and experience, works better.

    If you go with guitar you might try using DADGAD tuning. Some easy yet rich sounding chord voicings easily transposed with a capo.

    Again, just an opinion but I think tenor guitars in GDAE tuning work better for melody than comping.

    Good luck whichever way you go. Of course, I think most of us would recommend getting one of each!
    Steve

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    Default Re: Beginner Seeking Advice - Guitar or Octave Mandolin?

    I have an Octave Mandolin it’s a five string electric with 20” scale. I also have a few guitars but only one of them is in standard tuning. Personally I thought I would struggle with Guitar as opposed to fifths tuning. However the more I get into different tunings the easier it all seems to get to understand.
    By all means get yourself an octave, but nobody said you can’t have both.

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    Default Re: Beginner Seeking Advice - Guitar or Octave Mandolin?

    I had a nice Weber OM for a couple of years and loved it for rhythm purposes, but never practiced enough to get used to the slightly different fingering for melody/lead stuff. I eventually traded it up for a mandocello, which I love, but which serves more of a bass role in a group. Mandolin remains my favorite at the moment, and I wasn’t willing to neglect it to really get proficient on OM. BTW, I have large hands and average sized fingers, so the scale length really wasn’t the problem. Shoot, if Sierra Hull and Sarah J can play them, there are few of us who can use hand size as an excuse (and very, very few of us with their talent, which I most definitely do not have).

    Long rambling response to say that I’ve come back to guitar in the past 6-8 months because of its versatility in both accompaniment
    and lead roles. I head up our church’s youth praise band, and when we’re well stocked with guitarists I play bass, MC, uke, and mando, but when folks are out it just works better to use the 6 string. And, there’s a ton of instructional materials and good guitar teachers out there, while there’s a dearth of good OM-specific instruction available. It’s also much easier to find a stage worthy flattop guitar on a budget than it is to find a GBOM. But, if you really want an OM or a Zouk and budget isn’t an option, by all means check out a GBOM from Brock, Weber, Northfield, etc. I may do that myself at some point...
    Chuck

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    Registered User foldedpath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beginner Seeking Advice - Guitar or Octave Mandolin?

    Although there are great examples of artists like Tim O'Brien and Sarah Jarosz who accompany singing on an OM, I think a guitar is better suited to that role, for several reasons:

    It's a "cleaner," less complex sound when either strummed or fingerpicked. Leaves a little more room for your voice in the mix. I love the sound of an OM for things like melody lines or arpeggiated/counterpoint accompaniment, but they can sound muddy compared to a guitar when strummed.

    A guitar reaches a little lower into the bass range, with a bottom string that can sound great in Drop-D or DADGAD tuning. Even in standard tuning, you have a lower pitch to work with compared to an OM. It's why I strum Irish trad accompaniment in Drop-D on my guitar instead of using my Weber OM. I miss that bass range on the OM.

    A guitar opens up the option of fingerstyle playing, which is a nice alternative to strumming when you're singing. Especially for the slower, more intimate songs. You can fingerpick an OM, but it's not really designed for it, especially if you use longer nails or fingerpicks that can hang up in the double courses.

    Finally, one big advantage of guitar is that you can find a nice one for not much money. The OM is a very niche instrument, not much choice at the entry level and can be very expensive if you go for a carved archtop model. You can get a guitar of equivalent quality for half what you'd spend on an OM.

    Having said all that, I think there is one very good reason to use an OM to accompany singing, and that's if you want to stand out in a local crowd of singer-songwriter musicians. If you go for one of the more mandolin-shaped OMs, it will look and sound different from a guitar, and may get you more attention. That may not be the only reason a few artists like O'Brien, Jarosz, Hull, etc. have taken it up, but it sure doesn't hurt!

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    Registered User Mandobart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beginner Seeking Advice - Guitar or Octave Mandolin?

    Similar background - first learned violin as a child, picked up guitar as a young teen, many years later (at 43) I started mandolin. I soon got into octave mandolin and mandocello. I still love guitar, but my standing in the local music community (getting gigs, being asked to contribute on studio albums) shot way up when I became one of maybe a half dozen local mediocre mando players vs one of a few thousand local mediocre guitar players. Another option is restring the guitar with 5 strings tuned C, G, D, A, E. You can play the same basic chords as you would on a mandocello and it sounds good.

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    Default Re: Beginner Seeking Advice - Guitar or Octave Mandolin?

    +1 for tenor guitar strung GDAE.
    I'm a fan of the Blueridge BR-40T.
    Here's a used one for $400 at GC
    https://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Bl...stic-Guitar.gc

    Here's the same but cutaway with pickup and onboard preamp and case for $565
    https://reverb.com/item/17671044-blu...or-guitar-2018

    If you go with a guitar, I think the best deal around right now is the Bristol BM-16CE, OOO size cutaway with pickup. $180 with gig bag.
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B014A1CNOA/
    The listing says $199.99 but if you click the link to speak with an Amazon Harmony consultant they'll give you a 10% off coupon.
    This guitar is normally $400+. It is a laminate top, but it sounds and plays way better than most solid top guitars anywhere near the price.

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    F5G & MD305 Astro's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beginner Seeking Advice - Guitar or Octave Mandolin?

    There is a lot of good advice here. I'm going to have to say that if your primary goal is to move into singing, then go with guitar. Its an instrument that is tough to beat for solo singing and the amount of easy guitar songs available is untouchable so you will be up and running way sooner. Sure Sarah J is great but those aren't exactly entry level songs she is writing. Then, after you have a solid bass of guitar songs, try some of them out on your Mando. Use 2 finger chords for them at first. If that works well, then try it on an OM.

    As for which inexpensive but decent entry guitars(<500) , I can recommend the Taylor GS Mini (I like the mahogany model's sound the best)or a used Seagull Artist or a used Alvarez. As always, an easy playing set up is key to learning.

    As for the OM, I like my Pono for singing but they are >1k. Maybe find a used one for half that in a few years time (they're pretty new still).
    No matter where I go, there I am...Unless I'm running a little late.

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    Default Re: Beginner Seeking Advice - Guitar or Octave Mandolin?

    In the Original Post, I see the word "invest" in purchasing a new instrument. So very good values aside, perhaps the OP plans to spend a little more. On mandolin cafe this topic goes on forever!

    My personal experience.
    I've played fiddle / violin for almost 30 years. (yikes am I getting old?). Mandolin came along about 14 years ago and it is easy to identify notes on the fingerboard. For a fiddle player, chords are perhaps a new field of learning . And guitar, well it is the best for accompaniment. You have to learn chords for guitar as well. It involves the same amount of effort. And chords on mandolin, mandola, octave mandolin, etc. involve the same amount of effort.

    My vote?
    Guitar.
    Last edited by DougC; Dec-24-2018 at 1:32pm. Reason: I play guitar and mandola too...
    Decipit exemplar vitiis imitabile

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    Default Re: Beginner Seeking Advice - Guitar or Octave Mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seonachan View Post
    You could also go with a tenor guitar in octave mandolin tuning.
    Or tune it as a tenor guitar...?

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    Default Re: Beginner Seeking Advice - Guitar or Octave Mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyV View Post
    Or tune it as a tenor guitar...?
    I prefer GDAE on tenor for accompanyment since it gets you in the same ballpark as guitar. Also, no need to transpose familiar shapes from G to C.
    If you go with a guitar bodied tenor you also get the full sound of guitar, more or less.
    I play mandolin, Octave Mandolin, guitar, tenor guitar, mandocello. I still reach for the GDAE tenor as often as guitar, maybe more so.

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    Default Re: Beginner Seeking Advice - Guitar or Octave Mandolin?

    You might also consider a Ukulele, which is a good instrument to accompany yourself singing. I played Ukulele and sang with a few other ukulele players for about 6 years, before the desire for a little more bass led me first to a baritone ukulele, which is tuned like the top 4 strings of a guitar. Eventually the desire for even more bass and volume led me to the guitar, which as others have said it's great for singing with. I've played the Ukulele and rhythm guitar in my band for the last several years. We play and sing old standards at mostly nursing homes and seniors about once a month. We have a lead guitarist, myself, and a bass player, and we all sing.

    Since you come from the violin world, you might consider a soprano or concert Ukulele strung with mandolin tuning strings. Aquilla makes a set. Then, you would already know the fretboard, and would only have to learn the chords.

    There is also a thread on this forum about tuning a baritone ukulele to GDAE. The video sounds

    https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/t...ne-Uke-in-GDAE
    Last edited by Smyrna5; Dec-26-2018 at 11:56am.

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