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Thread: Beginners, how many set up your mandolin successfully on your own

  1. #26
    Moderator JEStanek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beginners, how many set up your mandolin successfully on your

    I have never don the set up work myself. I kinda liked having a pro do it and always had good comfortable results. Maybe I'm lucky to have decent folks who know mandolins around. It also gave me an excuse to go into their shop and play other mandolins, buy a handful of picks and strings and maybe a book or two.

    I think if you want to learn the set up stuff, that's great. I never HAD to learn it all. Changing strings and cleaning my mandolin up are good enough for me.

    Jamie
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  2. #27

    Default Re: Beginners, how many set up your mandolin successfully on your

    If you take a machinest’s straightedge and lay it on the frets, you will likely find a hump where the neck meets the body. This will limit how low your action can be set. As you play up the neck, you need to clear this hump. A mandolin like a Collings has had this done. That is why they play so cleanly up the neck. You may be happy with the action you can get to clear the hump, and not have a high or low fret. Be happy.

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  4. #28

    Default Re: Beginners, how many set up your mandolin successfully on your

    I've made around 50 instruments, mainly ukes but a few guitars, so each one had to be set up of course.

    I'd say that if you have a low priced instrument it's worth setting it up yourself. Do it in the right order though:

    1. Nut slot height. On most inexpensive instruments the slots are not deep enough. The difference once they're right is enormous! This can transform your playing, both because you now play in tune at the lower frets and also because notes and chords at the lower frets are no longer difficult to play. I just restored an 1890 bowlback, and had to deepen the slots on that - it plays beautifully now. If you cut too deep you can fill the slot with CA glue and baking soda and start again, so it's not that risky. But go slow, keep checking, and you shouldn't need to.

    2. Bridge placement so the 12th fret note is an octave above the open note. Probably not achievable for all the strings, but work out a compromise which suits your playing.

    3. Bridge height to get your desired action.

    4. Truss rod (if you have one) to set the relief.

    Fret levelling is only needed if you get buzzing, so don't start with that - its an advanced skill/art!

    Doing these in the wrong order means you won't get the best setup, as e.g. the correct relief depends on the action you set.

    A good reason for learning setup is that all instruments change shape with the seasons, so your perfect winter setup might need tweaking in the summer.

    But as others have said, an expensive instrument deserves a good setup, which might be a professional job. You won't do better than adequate the first dozen times. OTOH, if you've never set up a cheaper instrument, how can you tell the professional what you like?

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  6. #29
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    Default Re: Beginners, how many set up your mandolin successfully on your

    Oh it's a slippery slope.
    I started with Rob's book and was very pleased with the results. I timidly filed the nut and lowered the action. I did not go as low as most detail. I stopped short out of caution. My modest mandolin was much more playable. Later I leveled the fretboard and recrowned the frets, filed the nut and dropped the action to spec. Dramatic improvement. All positions now playable.
    Next, I have a bone nut in my tool box. I just need to muster the courage.
    Apart from the benefts of improved playabilty, I feel very comfortable assesing the playability potential of an instrument. I see so many struggling and frustrated musicians with poorly setup instruments and no guidance on what to do. I still have my first guitar. A hand me down. As a kid, it made me quit. As an adult. I consider it almost unplayable, completely unservicable.
    So if you like to learn and do, don't hestitate to set up a modest mandolin.
    To close, I must state my great respect for luthiers. They work on my vintage instruments. They have knowlege skills and capabilities that boggle my mind.

  7. #30

    Default Re: Beginners, how many set up your mandolin successfully on your

    If you are happy with your action, I guess you need go no further. I kept making the mistake of going into Gryphon and playing different mandolin. I noticed the difference between $800 mandolins, and $4000 mandolins, not just the better wood and high level of fit and finish, but in playability. After thinking about it, it came down to quality fretwork.

    I also had work done by an old cantankerous repair guy who is heavily backlogged. He flat out won't do a setup without a fret level. The two instruments came back with very nice action. It was then I decided to learn to level and crown frets. Bought the tools and never looked back.
    Silverangel A
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    1913 Gibson A-1

  8. #31

    Default Re: Beginners, how many set up your mandolin successfully on your

    Hello, I recently found this thread while looking to learn about mandolin setups. I found out about Rob Meldrum and his set up guide here and sent him an email. He was nice enough to send me a copy and just asked that I post wherever I found out about his ebook. So thanks to everyone in this thread and Rob and hope you all have a great day.

  9. #32
    🎶 Play Pretty 🎶 Greg Connor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beginners, how many set up your mandolin successfully on your

    It’s been mentioned above, TAKE IT SLOW.

    Buy yourself a good set of nut files from Stewart MacDonald (or somewhere else) and sand a little, file a little, play a little and repeat until it’s perfect. It doesn’t take much on a mandolin. Less is more when it comes to mandolin adjustments.

    There really is no penalty. You can always buy a new nut and bridge and start over.

  10. #33
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    Default Re: Beginners, how many set up your mandolin successfully on your

    (thread - old, new people - new) main thing, get comfortable with techniques to unbooger boogered-up nut slots. not much setup one can do without touching the nut slots, to lower the action, to reduce friction, to stop buzzing. and without fail, at least 1 of the 8 slots will go bad.

  11. #34

    Default Re: Beginners, how many set up your mandolin successfully on your

    I've always set up my own instruments, it's not rocket science, I am baffled that people pay someone else to do a perfectly straightforward proceedure that anyone should be able to do.

    Dave H
    Eastman 615 mandola
    2011 Weber Bitteroot A5
    2012 Weber Bitteroot F5
    Eastman MD 915V
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    2016 Capek ' Bob ' standard scale tenor banjo
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  12. #35

    Default Re: Beginners, how many set up your mandolin successfully on your

    We all learn by making mistakes so best to start on something like a cheap Savannah. It's very rewarding when you get an improvement even just by cutting the nut slots. I usually put a kitchen knife in front of the nut and cut down so I cannot go too far down. Ruining a nut is nit on my agenda at all. Things like truss rods are very straightforward in my view. Trial and error. Even sanding the base of a bridge with sandpaper on top just needs a little common sense application. I've had people come to me who have NEVER EVER changed strings because they view it as above their ability!!! Come on. Laziness.

    With a high end instrument, then think twice. Pay a luthier for specialised stuff.

  13. #36

    Default Re: Beginners, how many set up your mandolin successfully on your

    A guitarist for 55 years, I've always done setup work on my guitars, except the most expensive ones. It's definitely worth taking the time to develop a little skills in this area, especially on inexpensive instruments. But even on my cheapies, I would occasionally take them to a pro for setup, and the results would always be better than I could do myself, and well worth the coin. So, I say, do both. But start out doing it yourself!

    Definitely learn to set the bridge, though it requires patience (because you have to repeatedly loosen the strings to adjust, then tune up to test.) You can work on both action and intonation in this process. Frankly, you HAVE to do them both together because they affect each other. If you started with the bridge rather than the nut, leave the action a tad high. I agree with ProfChris that it's less work to do it nut first, but if you're just learning and want to start with something you can hardly mess up in any serious way, start with the bridge. It also has a huge impact right away.

    Next to think about is the nut. If your action is high in the first few frets (which is likely) you'll want to adjust the nut. Of course, the first step is the grooves, which requires tools (even if made yourself.) Remember, not deep enough is better than too deep. In this case, being the same on all strings is more important than getting it perfect. As my hands aren't great, I left mine alone, for now. Might have a luthier cut me a nut someday.

    Once you're done with the nut grooves (or decided not to), sand the bottom of the nut until the action is good. Again, requires patience with lots of trials, loosening and re-tightening the strings. But well worth the effort. Don't rush. I was in a hurry and went too far, so now I have an aluminum shim under my nut. It's still better than it was.

    Note that there's no need to glue the nut down until you're good and happy with it (and even then, just a tiny amount is enough.) When tightening all the strings you'll need to keep it centered; I tighten the two outer strings first, push the nut in place, and it's good for the rest of the re-tightening.

    If you goof it on the nut, you can always get a new one. They're not expensive, even bone ones. But doing the initial notches in a nut is beyond my skills (I messed up my bridge slots, so now my string spacing isn't quite even, which drives me nuts. This was a kit mando, so there were no notches to begin with. Fortunately the nut had notches.)

    When you're done with the nut, you'll probably want to fine-tune the bridge again, because both action and intonation can be affected (though, usually not a lot.) Since you should be close, and since you have practice, this should be easy. Or let it wait until the next time you change strings.

    BTW, I've learned that mando players change one string at a time. On guitar, we usually take 'em all off, oil the fretboard, clean the top, and then put 'em all on. But on a mando once you have the bridge in the sweet spot you won't want to lose that. I had an archtop guitar and you'd think it would be the same, but no -- I didn't need to loosen the strings nearly as much to adjust the archtop's bridge.

  14. #37

    Default Re: Beginners, how many set up your mandolin successfully on your

    Hi. I know this is old, but still very relevant. I am also a beginner (practicing 6 months).I also have an inexpensive beginner mandolin (the Loar Honey Creek f style). I also got and used the ebook. At least I think we're talking about the same one. I had my initial setup done at a (high school band) music store. I knew better, so I Got What I deserved: a setup done by a clarinet player who may not have ever done it before ... And it turned out awful. Before I got the ebook I did my first setup on the aforementioned instrument that had been set up at the music store. First I bought half a dozen packs of string and made up my mind I would do it 6 times if necessary. String changes and all of need be. Did the first setup and it came out well except I failed to put one string on the lower tailpiece hooks. I've heard it doesn't Matt if you only employ the top hook, so that was okay, it just bugged me. Even though mandolin sounded 100% better, I did it again. This time with the book. Man it came out great
    Cheap Mando, but it's in tune all the way up the neck and the bridge fits perfectly now. But I was the tiniest bit flat on the last g string so I decided to readjust the bridge again even the it was only slightly off. Well, long story short it came out about the same. Luckily I again made a mistake. I didn't leave extra length on the first string, so after tightening and loosening a few times to adjust the bridge, it snapped. So I did it again. Changed all the strings again. And not one at a time. Took them all off and reset the bridge. I also did some work on the nut that I hadn't dated tackle before. Put it all back together and it was perfect. Absolutely spot-on (according to me, anyway. A person with only a little experience and know how. So I still had a few packs of strings left and I wanted to drive this lesson home so the following weekend I took all the strings off again and did it all over again. Basically did 4 setups in about 10-14 days. And now it's engrained. I know what happens when the bridge comes forward, when I push it back, when action is too low, too high, when nut slots are and aren't correct. I'm comfortable with making minor alterations to the bridge and nut. I have a better understanding of where various weird sounds are coming from and how to fix them. I'm so happy with having done this that I'm recommending it to all nubes. You really need to feel comfortable doing this stuff. It isn't rocket science and most of us who have never done this don't own a collings or Northfield or Gibson. We have a Guitar Center "The Loar" or even cheaper. So go ahead and do it and do it again and again until you are no longer mystified, apprehensive, otherwise intimidated by the process. This is what we're doing, after all. We're learning. Learning about music and learned about our instrument. And the learning should be the destination. Have fun. If it sounds worse when you're finished, figure out why and make adjustments or just do it again. No harm done.

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  16. #38

    Default Re: Beginners, how many set up your mandolin successfully on your

    There are a couple things I forgot to add. One, until I set up my instrument myself i had been working really, really hard trying to get my upstroke to sound right. I worked on this for months and finally got to the point where It sounded barely acceptable. One thng I hadn't anticipated ishow much easier my mandolin would play if properly setup. Once i read the ebook I realized my action was ridiculously high. And as mentioned the bridge was not properly positioned. I thought it was close but it turned out to be nowhere near close enough to being in tune at 12th fret. When I finished the adjustments and finally tuned up, first thing I noticed was the whole instrument came alive. It resonated in a way it hadnt before and soundes oh so sweet compared to before. So i started playing and holy shit! The first upward strum (not sure exactly what its called. Sorry, nubie here.) I hit sounded like someone else playing! I coul hardly believe it. All that work had really paid off afterall as my upstroke (to my inexperienced ear) sounded smooth as could be and sounded very similar to my downstroke. Before the adjustments I could barely even strum upward. I would miss strings or my pick would catch or some other disaster would happen. Adjusting the action (as wel as all the practicing I had done) pretty much totally solved this problem. To borrow from David Benedict, I had instantly leveled up in my ability to play after making these simple adjustments. everything i played sounded about like I was hoping I would sound after another 6 months of practice. Again, point is that it is so, SO important that you learn how to do this. Especially if you're dealing with a shitty setup to begin with.

  17. #39
    Orrig Onion HonketyHank's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beginners, how many set up your mandolin successfully on your

    You'll probably get dinged for language, but the thoughts you convey are valid.
    New to mando? Click this link -->Newbies to join us at the Newbies Social Group.

    Just send an email to rob.meldrum@gmail.com with "mandolin setup" in the subject line and he will email you a copy of his ebook for free (free to all mandolincafe members).

    My website and blog: honketyhank.com

  18. #40
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    Default Re: Beginners, how many set up your mandolin successfully on your

    I got my first mandolin in 1971, given to me by a former roommate as an exchange for the money he owed me money. It was a Lyon & Healy-made bowlback with a Carl Fischer label. It had no tailpiece, bridge or strings and one tuner was bent -- probably from being dropped. It also was filthy.

    So, I cleaned it up with my mother's furniture polish and headed to the town's only music store. There, I bought the only tailpiece, the only bridge and the only strings they had -- Black Diamonds.

    I then proceeded to ACCIDENTALLY set it up correctly by carefully and patiently hand-carving the bridge to the right height. I straightened the bent tuner by wrapping the handle in foam rubber and then "grunting" it straight with a pair of pliers.

    I played that mandolin for eight years and I still have it. Today, however, I would bring such a project to a capable luthier. I was lucky once, but you can't count on luck.
    Last edited by rickbella; Mar-21-2023 at 2:40pm. Reason: typo

  19. #41

    Default Re: Beginners, how many set up your mandolin successfully on your

    I've always set up my own instruments, mandolins and tenor banjo's.
    I fail to see the point in paying someone else to do something which most people could easily learn, it's not rocket science.

    Dave H
    Eastman 615 mandola
    2011 Weber Bitteroot A5
    2012 Weber Bitteroot F5
    Eastman MD 915V
    Gibson F9
    2016 Capek ' Bob ' standard scale tenor banjo
    Ibanez Artist 5 string
    2001 Paul Shippey oval hole

  20. #42
    Registered User Max_Autobrake's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beginners, how many set up your mandolin successfully on your

    I learned to set acoustic guitars up and have done many over the years. As a newcomer to the mandolin I wasn't fazzed by tackling the job myself, especially since my learner instrument was almost unplayable Chinese junk. I spent a few hours stoning the frets and bedding the machine heads in before getting bored and going for a beer. Came back to it the next day and slotted the nut and saddle. It's far from lovely, but it is at least playable now. I find the whole experience quite cathartic if I'm in the right mood.

  21. #43
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    Default Re: Beginners, how many set up your mandolin successfully on your

    I just set up an inexpensive Recording King Dirty 30's A-style, but being new to mandolins, I took my time. If you are doing it yourself, there's no hurry. I made a few changes, played it for a few days, and went back and did some more. Now it sounds and plays nicely.

    There is hardly anything you screw up that you can't recover from, and parts are readily available at reasonable prices online.

    I would invest in a few things like a string height gauge, feeler gauges, and a caliper to measure accurately, which you will use again and again.

    As others have said "it's not rocket science."

  22. #44

    Default Re: Beginners, how many set up your mandolin successfully on your

    New strings for starters. Take each pair off and replace them, pair by pair, because the bridge isn't stuck on.

    If you need to adjust the bridge, you can test it by playing the open string and 12th fret which should be exactly an octave apart. Sometimes I've found it needs to be on a slight diagonal rather than exactly parallel (the tension in the E strings are higher when they're tuned is the reason for this).

    A shop can do this for you btw!

  23. #45
    Registered User Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beginners, how many set up your mandolin successfully on your

    Not this boy. Break everything I try to fix. Could't buid a birdhouse.
    Gibson A-Junior snakehead (Keep on pluckin'!)

  24. #46
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    Default Re: Beginners, how many set up your mandolin successfully on your

    It appears that many folks are changing a few strings at a time for fear of the bridge moving. I don't see this as a problem, I just stick a small piece of blue painters tape along the edge of the bridge at each end to mark the position. The tape is easy to remove when you are done.

    This will allow you to clean and oil the finger board.

    Note it's easy to center the bridge if you tighten the 2 outside strings first, and then follow with the rest after checking the intonation.

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