Modes - Practicing to Cement Their Sound in Your Head

[JonZ]

“For example, research has shown that teacher feedback after several attempts is more effective than teacher feedback after each attempt.”

Absurd. How many attempts at writing an essay should I give my students whom we classify as “Basic Writers” in my community college classes before I give them feedback? I should say nothing until their, what, third or fourth attempt?

I think the better example would be standing over the students shoulder and giving him feedback on each sentence. The point is to not interrupt the students own feedback process.

[Bill Findley]

That’s what I thought you’d say. Check out any moderately progressive community college teaching curriculum. One I’d recommend is San Francisco State’s.

[JonZ]

I can’t make out whether you agree or disagree or why you are recommending SF states teaching curriculum.

[Bill Findley]

Sorry. I disagree with you. I mean, it’s better to let a basic writer struggle a bit to write an essay, and then to discuss with him/her in order to discover what is missing in the meaning he/she is trying to create and how to revise the thought, than to be looking over her shoulder and in so doing to quite likely interrupt the process. Create a context, not a series of sentences. It’s a more holistic approach, for want of a better term. Sentence-level stuff is taught according to the point the writer is trying to make, i.e. describing, cause-effect, arguing, discussing.
I learn best in that way. You likely learn in a different fashion. Musically, I like to learn by learning as many tunes/songs as I can muster, not by learning scales. Mike Marshall, my teacher, recommends this. Learn the tunes, then complicate them with double stops, breaks, and so on. Top-down approach, not bottom-up. After playing for several years now, I’m more interested in patterns, FFcP, reading. But I never would have persevered had I started by running scales.

[PhilGox]

Hello,

Something that helped me a lot to hear modes is the use of simple backing tracks.
Out of context a D dorian scale is exactly the same thing as a C major scale.
Only a backing chord or a bass line can make a difference between a C major mode and a D dorian mode begining on the C.
It can be confusing.

So I suggest you use something like Band in a Box or i Real Pro.
(You can also find some phone apps like this for free)
Or, If you can't acces these apps, record your own backing tracks.
Very simple tracks at slow tempo with just one chord all along so that you can hear a very simple harmony.
It will help you to ear the difference between scales and remember their color.

For your exemple, record (or make play) two backing tracks.
One with C chord all along and another with Dm chord all along.
Play your Cmajor scale on the C track then play it on the Dm track .
Then you will clearly ear that your C doesn't sound the same on both tracks.
For me it worked very well to ear the difference between modes.
I founded that practicing scales and modes without harmonic context was only good for my fingers, but harder to make them come in my ears.

Hope this will help, good luck

[Carl23]

Sorry. I disagree with you. I mean, it’s better to let a basic writer struggle a bit to write an essay, and then to discuss with him/her in order to discover what is missing in the meaning he/she is trying to create and how to revise the thought, than to be looking over her shoulder and in so doing to quite likely interrupt the process. Create a context, not a series of sentences. It’s a more holistic approach, for want of a better term. Sentence-level stuff is taught according to the point the writer is trying to make, i.e. describing, cause-effect, arguing, discussing.
I learn best in that way. You likely learn in a different fashion. Musically, I like to learn by learning as many tunes/songs as I can muster, not by learning scales. Mike Marshall, my teacher, recommends this. Learn the tunes, then complicate them with double stops, breaks, and so on. Top-down approach, not bottom-up. After playing for several years now, I’m more interested in patterns, FFcP, reading. But I never would have persevered had I started by running scales.

Bill,

I would not say that JonZ is incorrect in your framework, so much as incomplete in application.

When one is correcting a student, a teacher needs to be aware of a few things. (correction is just an example, these are general universals)

1) what level of "chunking" is the student working at; are they working on note recognition, 4 bar phrasing or full composition memorization. Each of these would have different levels of appropriate "interruption".

2) learning style of the student: if you are dealing with an anxious student, you would handle it different from a confident one.

2.a) Learning style from the multiple intelligence framework, modifications at this level can be quite subtle.

3) relationship with the student, the longer you work with a student you can interrupt sooner (or later) than a predefined standard.

There are more, but they quickly get into "hair splitting" teritory.

I got my degree in music education in the early 90s and have done my best to keep relatively "current". Most of my experience is with teaching adults on a different instrument, however the teaching fundamentals are not that different.

The tricky thing about opinions in this area, the fundamentals can be utilized in many ways depending in the environment that you are teaching within, and the personality / teaching style of a teacher.

I could go on, but I'm at work and need to go.

C

[mandocrucian]

Boy, it sounds like someone's refined "Rat Maze Runner" training, and has begun applying it to human test subjects! The only missing element seems to be the "stick" - the sting of punishment - for not learning fast enough. Incoporate some of the Ludovico Techniques !

[Carl23]

Will a cattle prod work? I have a cattle prod... (eyes students suspiciously)

C

[JonZ]

Bill--

I think you misunderstood me: "The point is to not interrupt the students own feedback process."

Carl--

Be careful regarding "learning styles". If you do an internet search on "educational myths", you will find it high on most lists. While some learning differences exist, engaging the learning style that is most appropriate to the skill--not to the learner--is what is most crucial. If I want to learn to dribble a basketball, I need to practice dribbling a basketball, even if I am a visual learner.

[Carl23]

Bill--

I think you misunderstood me: "The point is to not interrupt the students own feedback process."

Carl--

Be careful regarding "learning styles". If you do an internet search on "educational myths", you will find it high on most lists. While some learning differences exist, engaging the learning style that is most appropriate to the skill--not to the learner--is what is most crucial. If I want to learn to dribble a basketball, I need to practice dribbling a basketball, even if I am a visual learner.

https://www.edutopia.org/multiple-in...ences-research

[JonZ]

Interesting. Nonetheless, the best way to learn to dribble a basketball is still dribbling a basketball.