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Thread: Flatwound strings for acoustic mandolin w/ pickup?

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    Question Flatwound strings for acoustic mandolin w/ pickup?

    Hi folks,

    I have a question that I feel might be best answered here.

    I have an oval-hole Kentucky mandolin (KM-270) that I plug in sometimes (it has a K&K twin internal pickup). I'm interested in trying flatwound strings on it but unsure of how/if certain sets would respond to a pickup. Are there any sets I should look to (or stay away from) to use for both straight-up acoustic playing and being plugged in?

    I'm reading about Thomastiks and D'addario EFT (flat top) and EFW (flat wound).

    It's presently strung with D'addario EJ63 (10-38). I like the sound of my instrument and don't have a ton of experience or preferences about strings, but reading the descriptions of Thomastiks, they seem amazing. I definitely like the idea of minimizing string noise, and I've liked using flatwounds or flattops on guitar before. The idea of paying $50 for strings on a $400 instrument is a little weird, but if I end up changing strings less often as a result, I'm fine with that.

    Apologies if this a dumb question. Any ideas from this august group are appreciated!

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    Default Re: Flatwound strings for acoustic mandolin w/ pickup?

    If you like the sound acoustically, it should be fine plugged in. I have always said if it doesn't sound good acoustically, it won't sound good plugged in. The flatwounds will be quieter and less bright on the wound strings.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

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    Default Re: Flatwound strings for acoustic mandolin w/ pickup?

    I use Daddario EFW74 strings on my gigging mandolin, Collings MTO-2 oval with a piezo pickup. Sounds great to me!
    Be aware that any piezo pickup should be paired with an impedance matching DI/preamp.

    I also have EFW74 on my Kentucky KM-272 and like the way they sound, though I do not have a pickup in that mandolin

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    Default Re: Flatwound strings for acoustic mandolin w/ pickup?

    Quote Originally Posted by colorado_al View Post
    any piezo pickup should be paired with an impedance matching DI/preamp.
    Sentences like this is why I'm a bit terrified of going electric... (electric acoustic)

    :-)

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    Default Re: Flatwound strings for acoustic mandolin w/ pickup?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl23 View Post
    Sentences like this is why I'm a bit terrified of going electric... (electric acoustic)

    :-)
    Sorry to scare you! It is easy to do. Something as inexpensive as $30 or up to $300 depending on your tastes.
    Here are some options:
    Cheap and useable = https://www.amazon.com/Behringer-Aco...dp/B000KITQK2/

    Good = https://www.amazon.com/Fire-Eye-Deve.../dp/B0089EUZ4A

    Many more options available
    K&K preamp https://kksound.com/products/purepreamp.php

    LR Baggs is a standard https://www.amazon.com/LR-Baggs-Para.../dp/B001E95KEC

    I personally use a ToneDexter from Audio Sprockets, but it is overkill for the casual/occasional electric player. Excellent for a gigging musician though!
    https://audiosprockets.com/tonedexter/
    Last edited by colorado_al; Dec-18-2018 at 12:32pm.

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    Default Re: Flatwound strings for acoustic mandolin w/ pickup?

    The LR Baggs Para DI solves all that anxiety for me. It'll never sound as good as it does in the room acoustically, but I've got lots of control with the Para and don't have anything in the way of knobs or sliders on the instrument itself.

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    Default Re: Flatwound strings for acoustic mandolin w/ pickup?

    Thank you, Al! THat's a big help. I'm not going to shell out $50 for Thomastiks until after I try the EFW74's. I appreciate your help.

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    Default Re: Flatwound strings for acoustic mandolin w/ pickup?

    Quote Originally Posted by kcswimjustin View Post
    Thank you, Al! THat's a big help. I'm not going to shell out $50 for Thomastiks until after I try the EFW74's. I appreciate your help.
    I've played both the Thomastiks and Daddario. The Thomastiks have a very lush sound that is great but they don't have the projection that I want. The Daddario EFW74 are a great mix between smooth sound and still provide a punch when I want it.

    I buy mine from Strings and Beyond. Great price and service.
    http://www.stringsandbeyond.com/dmaflme11fw.html

    I'll record a bit for you and post it here.

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    Default Re: Flatwound strings for acoustic mandolin w/ pickup?

    Thanks-- you're a gem. I appreciate it.

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    Default Re: Flatwound strings for acoustic mandolin w/ pickup?

    Don't let the impedance matching issue spook you. It is just an electrical way to explain how a pickup reacts to the next downstream devise. Think of the relationship as a frequency interaction. Piezo pickups sound harsh and grating in the high end when they react with the typical 800 ohm input of a mixing board. That would be fine for keyboards, not piezo equipped acoustic instruments.

    When a piezo reacts to a 1 meg ohm input, the harsh frequencies are tamed and sound is much more pleasant. So you need a devise to match the input signal to an output signal of around 800 ohms that mixing boards want to see. Often this is now done at the input of the mixing board with a hi z switch. Most acoustic amps have this. A DI with a 1 Meg input impedance will do this very simply. A more popular solution is an acoustic pre amp, witch incorporates the function of a DI with EQ, gain, and other features.

    Pres fall into two main camps, simple and complex. Simple would be the RedEye, complex the PARA DI. I've been in the simple camp because I'd rather have great quality parts and less features.
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    Default Re: Flatwound strings for acoustic mandolin w/ pickup?

    OK. Here are a few videos for you.
    1st on the Kentucky KM-272 with D'addario EFW74.
    2nd on the Collings MTO-2 with D'addario EFW74.
    3rd on the Collings MTO-2 plugged in to a Fishman Loudbox Mini which has an impedance matching circuit built in.
    The amplified recording was a bit loud for the condenser mic, but you get the idea.
    Anyhow, I really like the D'addario EFW74 both acoustic and amplified on both of these instruments.

    Kentucky KM-272 with D'addario EFW74


    Collings MTO-2 with D'addario EFW74


    Collings MTO-2 plugged in to a Fishman Loudbox Mini

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    Default Re: Flatwound strings for acoustic mandolin w/ pickup?

    I use flat wound strings on my Fender (FM 61) Mandolin with a Magnetic pickup.. they work well ..
    Ribbon wind is steel after all , so is seen in the magnetic field like any other electric string..
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    Default Re: Flatwound strings for acoustic mandolin w/ pickup?

    I'm lucky that my best friend is a music producer / recording engineer.

    He is my go to guy for tech questions. Fortunately he plays acoustic instruments in many settings and is very concerned about sound quality when amplifying such instruments.

    Looking forward to getting into this side of things next year!

    C

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    Default Re: Flatwound strings for acoustic mandolin w/ pickup?

    The D'Addario flatwounds sounded and felt great on my Eastman. I didn't notice any loss in volume or projection when playing acoustically, just a difference in timbre. And because we almost always plug in for performances (K&K Twin), it maybe even sounded better. I've gone back to more bluegrassy sound for now, but maybe if I get a second mando, I'll keep one strung with flats.

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    Default Re: Flatwound strings for acoustic mandolin w/ pickup?

    Quote Originally Posted by kcswimjustin View Post
    Thank you, Al! THat's a big help. I'm not going to shell out $50 for Thomastiks until after I try the EFW74's. I appreciate your help.
    I used the Thomastiks for many years but switched to EFW74's when the first came out and have used them ever since. There are certain pickups like soundhole pickups or ones that go under the strings that won't work with certain string materials but the K&K should be fine with almost any string you use. One of the advantages you have using a pickup is whatever volume loss you have using flatwound strings you'll easily get back with a volume control. I actually find the EFW 74 strings to be pretty loud. Certainly louder than Thomastik.

    One thing I wanted to mention. In your original post you mentioned EFT Flat Top strings. These strings cannot be compared equally with any flatwound string. First, they are NOT flatwound. Second, they are bronze, whereas all flatwound strings (that I'm aware of) are made of stainless steel. There is a huge difference in sound and feel.
    Larry Hunsberger

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    Default Re: Flatwound strings for acoustic mandolin w/ pickup?

    Quote Originally Posted by colorado_al View Post
    The Thomastiks have a very lush sound that is great but they don't have the projection that I want. The Daddario EFW74 are a great mix between smooth sound and still provide a punch when I want it.
    This is exactly my description of the two sets. I used the Thomastik strings for about 12 years before the D'Addario set came out. I loved the TI sound, but the D'Addario set is much closer to the projection and punch I needed for Bluegrass but still retaining the flatwound feel. They are wonderful strings.
    Larry Hunsberger

    2013 J Bovier A5 Special w/ToneGard
    D'Addario FW-74 flatwound strings
    1909 Weymann&Sons bowlback
    1919 Weymann&Sons mandolute
    Ibanez PF5
    1993 Oriente HO-20 hybrid double bass
    3/4 guitar converted to octave mandolin

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    Default Re: Flatwound strings for acoustic mandolin w/ pickup?

    I’ve been using the EFW74’s for years, because I can play for a lot longer before my fingertips go numb, and the reduced string noise is good too. You need to buy in bulk because you need spares, you can’t count on ducking into the nearest music store and finding them. The sonic tradeoff is a bit less bass response.
    Certainly curious about the Thomastiks, but I’m not $120 curious. I’m sure I would be able to break them, because that is my superpower.

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    Default Re: Flatwound strings for acoustic mandolin w/ pickup?

    Quote Originally Posted by pops1 View Post
    If you like the sound acoustically, it should be fine plugged in. I have always said if it doesn't sound good acoustically, it won't sound good plugged in. The flatwounds will be quieter and less bright on the wound strings.
    What pop's said !

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    Default Re: Flatwound strings for acoustic mandolin w/ pickup?

    Plan B; Flat ground round wound with bronze . I'd replace the A with plain steel, as a wound A breaks in a day ,

    because the core wire is super thin.

    might be a better acoustic sound, you then amplify with a soundboard contact pickup of your choice..





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    Default Re: Flatwound strings for acoustic mandolin w/ pickup?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Cameron View Post
    You need to buy in bulk because you need spares, you can’t count on ducking into the nearest music store and finding them.
    Not sure why you would need to buy in "bulk". I've used them for years also and never had a need for extras. I do keep a spare set just in case but have never needed them. They last for a year or more and I've never broken one.
    Larry Hunsberger

    2013 J Bovier A5 Special w/ToneGard
    D'Addario FW-74 flatwound strings
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    1919 Weymann&Sons mandolute
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    Default Re: Flatwound strings for acoustic mandolin w/ pickup?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Streip View Post
    The D'Addario flatwounds sounded and felt great on my Eastman. I didn't notice any loss in volume or projection when playing acoustically, just a difference in timbre.
    I have heard so many people say that they are too quiet but I've always felt that it's just a perceived difference because of the difference in treble response. The brighter highs make the bronze strings seem louder when I think the difference is minimal. I've always had plenty of volume using flatwounds.
    Larry Hunsberger

    2013 J Bovier A5 Special w/ToneGard
    D'Addario FW-74 flatwound strings
    1909 Weymann&Sons bowlback
    1919 Weymann&Sons mandolute
    Ibanez PF5
    1993 Oriente HO-20 hybrid double bass
    3/4 guitar converted to octave mandolin

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    Default Re: Flatwound strings for acoustic mandolin w/ pickup?

    Magnetic coil pickups work best with ferromagnetic strings - nickel, monel, steel and less well with non-ferromagnetic strings (phosphor bronze, stainless steel). Piezo pickups like K&K don't care. Whatever strings drive the top more will give you a better piezo signal too.

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    Default Re: Flatwound strings for acoustic mandolin w/ pickup?

    Quote Originally Posted by mandobassman View Post
    I have heard so many people say that they are too quiet but I've always felt that it's just a perceived difference because of the difference in treble response. The brighter highs make the bronze strings seem louder when I think the difference is minimal. I've always had plenty of volume using flatwounds.
    I do think the flatwound strings I've used were quieter, on both mando and guitar. I do really like the sound and feel of D'addario flattop strings though. Round-wound strings ground flat, like most of us.

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    Default Re: Flatwound strings for acoustic mandolin w/ pickup?

    Quote Originally Posted by mandobassman View Post
    I have heard so many people say that they are too quiet but I've always felt that it's just a perceived difference because of the difference in treble response. The brighter highs make the bronze strings seem louder when I think the difference is minimal. I've always had plenty of volume using flatwounds.
    I get plenty of volume from flatwounds as well

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