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Thread: NEW Kentucky KM906 - end pin fell out (only owned it 3 months!)

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    Default NEW Kentucky KM906 - end pin fell out (only owned it 3 months!)

    Hi there mandolin cafe folks,

    In September I bought a new Kentucky KM906. Been very happy with it indeed. Until tonight that is. An hour ago I was playing and the end pin just fell out and the strap came off my neck. If it weren't for my reflexes being good at that moment, I wouldn't have caught the mandolin, and it would have surely cracked on the hard floor. Luckily that didn't happen.

    Is it normal for this to have happened?

    The mandolin was $1100 so I would have hoped that these sorts of things wouldn't happen.

    Unfortunately I live many many thousands of kilometres from the seller.
    What do you all suggest?

    I am a mandolin newbie so not sure if this sort of thing is commonplace?

    The end pin itself seems intact but now slides in and out of the hole with ease.

    I have attached a photo to show what I mean.

    Thanks for all of your advice, in advance!
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: NEW Kentucky KM906 - end pin fell out (only owned it 3 months

    Yes, pretty common, I think this happened on my km900, or i checked if it was loose and it was, just wrap enough blue low tack painters tape on it to snug it in and don't force it in (and don't drop mando on the end pin), with enough force you can split hte tail block

    https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/t...ngs-MT-glue-it

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    Registered User O. Apitius's Avatar
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    Default Re: NEW Kentucky KM906 - end pin fell out (only owned it 3 months

    Personally, I apply a very small dab of glue to the endpin then push it in snug and give it a slight twist, maybe 10-15 degrees. My view is that the potential for catastrophic damage due to an instrument crashing to the floor because the endpin came loose, is too great to risk. Usually, with this method, if the endpin ever does need removing for repair purposes etc., it can usually be dislodged with a quick twist using soft jawed pliers. Occasionally, this will not work if too much glue was used, but personally, I would rather have to drill out the endpin than to risk the instrument falling to the floor.
    As gtani7 correctly stated, if the pin is jammed in with too much force or the mandolin is dropped onto the endpin, the result can be a split end-block. The pin is tapered after all. To minimize that possibility, I glue a cross-grained plate of maple rim material to the inside of the end-block as seen in this photo.

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    Mangler of Tunes OneChordTrick's Avatar
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    Default Re: NEW Kentucky KM906 - end pin fell out (only owned it 3 months

    All of my instruments have a screw in end pin. Other than aesthetics or tradition is there any reason to use a tapered pin?

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    Default Re: NEW Kentucky KM906 - end pin fell out (only owned it 3 months

    Depending on your tailpiece you can probably put a shoelace thru that and strap end as a backup. If it's any consolation, I've heard of banjo players dropping/breaking their banjos because the strap is only held on by one Chicago screw at each end.
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    Adrian Minarovic
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    Default Re: NEW Kentucky KM906 - end pin fell out (only owned it 3 months

    Loose endpins are common this time when air inside gets dryer. They rarely need to be removed so you can glue it in with tiny drop of white glue and be prepared to have it drilled out and replaced if it ever needs to be removed. Or you can paint tiny layer of CA glue and let it dry thoroughhly and repeat as many times as necessary till it fits tightly again... I've heard folks using tiny amount of nail polish (pinhead sized dot) to secure it and it is relatively easy to break by twisting the endpin with pliers.
    Adrian

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    Default Re: NEW Kentucky KM906 - end pin fell out (only owned it 3 months

    The best way to keep the mandolin from hitting the floor is to NOT trust the strap. I never have the mandolin hanging around my neck unless I have one hand on the mandolin, something I learned from my Dad that was a pretty smart guy. I've had the pin come out on several guitars, but due to his contsul I've never dropped one.

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    Default Re: NEW Kentucky KM906 - end pin fell out (only owned it 3 months

    Quickest and easiest fix is a wrap or 2 of painters tape around the shaft of the endpin. It will snug it up and is 100% reversible. And you probably already have some at home.

  10. #9
    My Florida is scooped pheffernan's Avatar
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    Default Re: NEW Kentucky KM906 - end pin fell out (only owned it 3 months

    Quote Originally Posted by Cranial-nerve-zero View Post
    Is it normal for this to have happened . . . . I am a mandolin newbie so not sure if this sort of thing is commonplace?
    I'd call it more commonplace than normal, and I'd wonder if it's a symptom of something else going on with your mandolin. Have you noticed any other changes in the instrument? If you bought it at a distance in September, and are experiencing an issue in December, my first thought is that your Kentucky might be shedding moisture due to dry winter air and forced heat. How have you been storing it and have you been introducing any humidification? You might consider investing in a good hygrometer if you have not already done so.
    Last edited by pheffernan; Dec-19-2018 at 6:38pm.
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    Default Re: NEW Kentucky KM906 - end pin fell out (only owned it 3 months

    This is one of those questions. One of those that gets asked seemingly a million times. Like what’s the best pick, A style versus F style, F holes versus oval holes, I want to buy a hand made high quality F style mandolin but I don’t want to spend more than $200, yadda yadda yadda.

    It is perfectly normal for the endpin to be easily removable. It is relic left over from violin design. So guess you could say the reason that they are still madethis way is tradition. And it was never designed to be a strap button. It is desirable for it to be removable because it gives a much better view of the interior of the instrument than you can get from the F holes. This is useful for many repair situations. You have to remember that the F style design we all love so much was originally designed for playing classical music in a mandolin orchestra, seated. No strap needed.

    I have brought this point up several times before and been told, well I m right of course, but I should face the reality that, even though it is NOT a “strap button”, that’s how many modern players use it. Ok. That being the case, I believe the best advice from the posts above are 1. Use a piece of blue painter’s tape as a shim to tighten it up. Non permanent and very easily reversible if need be. 2. Never trust that endpin by itself to support your instrument and keep one hand on it at all times when using it as a “strap button”.

    I do not recommend glueing it in, even if it’s a “tiny dot” that can be “easily broken free with pliers”. If it were designed to be glued in, it would be. And if you do that, and it needs to be removed some day, it might be an unfortunate scenario for the repair person.

    I think one of the best features of my Weber instruments is their take on the end pin. They use a knurled thumb screw which threads into a rubber compression nut. Very secure when tightened and yet easily removable.
    Don

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    Default Re: NEW Kentucky KM906 - end pin fell out (only owned it 3 months

    I agree with all of the above recs. This happened on my Silverangel, which came from the Pacific Northwest in Winter. I used the tape trick to excellent effect, but ultimately got whole house humidification...haven’t had an issue since...
    Chuck

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    Ursus Mandolinus Fretbear's Avatar
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    Default Re: NEW Kentucky KM906 - end pin fell out (only owned it 3 months

    They will fall out. Why trust them? A knotted length of rawhide laced through the strap end and knotted off inside the tailblock through the end-pin hole will never fail.
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    formerly Philphool Phil Goodson's Avatar
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    Default Re: NEW Kentucky KM906 - end pin fell out (only owned it 3 months

    Advice above is good.
    The picture shows how to make a backup loop.
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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: NEW Kentucky KM906 - end pin fell out (only owned it 3 months

    The endpin on my Lebeda mandolin has been held firmly in place for 9 years with a tiny dab of my wife's clear nail varnish on it. It acts like a very weak glue. Strong enough not to break if you pull it,but if you give the endpin a sharp 'twist',it breaks very easily,allowing you to remove it,
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    Default Re: NEW Kentucky KM906 - end pin fell out (only owned it 3 months

    ...... yes, that’s what I’d do but how do you know it will “break very easily, allowing you to remove it”?

  20. #16
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    Default Re: NEW Kentucky KM906 - end pin fell out (only owned it 3 months

    From Ray(T) - " ....but how do you know it will “break very easily.." - Knowing that nail varnish isn't a 'GLUE',i tried it,& it did exactly as i thought - broke. I used a pair of pliers with masking tape covering the jaws - one sharp twist & the endpin came out. I used another dab of varnish to stick it back in,
    Ivan
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  21. #17

    Default Re: NEW Kentucky KM906 - end pin fell out (only owned it 3 months

    The advice offered by Mr. Apitius is standard practice with many repairmen and builders, and in my opinion is the best path by far. Any solution involving tape and other means of building up the pin assumes the problem is because the pin is too small. That may be true, or not. Additionally, it ignores the problem that pins move a little over time, tail blocks expand and contract, and so on. Even if you get it tight with tape, there's no guarantee it will stay. A small dot of wood glue between a plastic pin a wooden tail block block is a fairly weak bond that can be broken on demand, but is not likely to break unless forced. It won't come out accidentally, but if you want it to, it will.

    Ivan's nail polish accomplishes the same thing, but I prefer a small dot of Titebond. Nail polish is lacquer, and will of course eat lacquer. If you happen to get a little bit of Titebond on a lacquered instrument, just wipe it off.

    This is also a reason why I do not use ebony or other wooden end pins. They're too easy to break when trying to take them out. Padded pliers will not hurt a plastic or bone pin.

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    Default Re: NEW Kentucky KM906 - end pin fell out (only owned it 3 months

    The worst is when your strap slips off the end pin! This happened to me about 15 years ago while at a gig playing, luckily I was only a few beers deep so reflexes were pretty good as I was able to snatch the mandolin a few mere inches from smoking the floor! Since then I wrap a twister tie around or recently my Dad gave some of those rubber washers Stew-Mac sells that slip over the enpin in between the strap.
    I'd say Oliver has the right idea! Not to mention builds a GREAT mandolin! "If I would've had the $ at the time the Music Emporium awhile back had one of his Rosine F-5's!" I think that was the model and YEH MAN! That was the best new mandolin I heard in a long time and I'm not one for anything new! I love them old and flawed- played in

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    Default Re: NEW Kentucky KM906 - end pin fell out (only owned it 3 months

    I am told by a friend and Swiss Master Furniture builder--not a luthier but yes a real Master--went through years of apprenticeship in Basel--that often the reason is the taper on the strap pin and the taper of the hole don't match, consequently there isn't 100% wood to wood surface contact. He turned a new ebony strap pin for me with correct matching taper to the hole for my mandolin. I've never had a problem since. I have a new tenor guitar and after only a week the pin came out. I use a Japanese hobbyist tape called Tamiya. It's thinner than 3M and can be built up. And comes in narrower sizes than painters tape. This gives you a little wriggle room to use the tape to "taper" the pin rather than strickly "fattening" it.

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    Registered User mandobassman's Avatar
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    Default Re: NEW Kentucky KM906 - end pin fell out (only owned it 3 months

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandoplumb View Post
    The best way to keep the mandolin from hitting the floor is to NOT trust the strap. I never have the mandolin hanging around my neck unless I have one hand on the mandolin, something I learned from my Dad that was a pretty smart guy. I've had the pin come out on several guitars, but due to his contsul I've never dropped one.
    I would agree with this advice. When I'm playing anywhere, there is almost never a moment when I don't have at least one hand on the mandolin. Either my left hand is holding the neck or my right hand is holding the neck near the neck block. If the mandolin is not being held onto, and is just hanging loose, it could be a disaster waiting to happen.

    However, the pin shouldn't come out anyway. I replaced the tailpiece on my mandolin, which involved removing the endpin. It was a Breedlove and I spoke to a rep at Breedlove and he said they they put a TINY dab of glue on the edge of the endpin to secure it. Not enough to make it difficult to get out if it needs to, but enough to keep it secure.

    Temperature and humidity changes can shrink the wood enough to loosen the endpin, so its a good idea to use glue.

    I have never had one come out, but it happened to a friend on stage with his '50s Martin D-18. Could have been bad, but he caught it because of the reason I mentioned above. He had his hands on it when the pin came out.
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