Your Suggestion(s): Best Way to Remove Titebond

[Mando&Me]

For those of you who may have seen my other thread, I am in the midst of attempting my first mandolin repair on a broken headstock. This is a J. Bouvier mandolin that I truly love, and the broken neck was 100% my fault.

Here's a photo the brake. Please see my questions below the photo.



The first repair was done by a highly qualified luthier who used Titebond. It lasted less than a year. It's my understanding that Titebond is water based, so I'm wanting to get a consensus on the best options for removing all the old glue. What I've heard to far: A toothbrush with firm bristles, or some form of steam, say, from a tea kettle or similar source.

I plan to take it slow, being extremely meticulous and thorough. This is such a wonderful forum; I always appreciate your insights and suggestions.

Thanks in advance for your comments and feedback.

Mando & Me

[rcc56]

The problem with removing old glue in a spot like this is that mechanical action will start to pull wood fibers loose, and steam is hard on finishes. But you have to get the old glue out of there, so "you pays your money and you takes your choice."

For the record, alcohol will also dissolve Titebond, but you don't want it to get on the finish. I have heard of using vinegar, but although I have used it a couple of times on hide glue, I haven't tried it on Titebond. Vinegar darkened the finish at the joint on a violin I used it on.

Whatever you do, the cleaner you get it and the better the fit, the more likely it will be to hold over a long term.

[multidon]

Stew Mac sells a product called “De Glue Goo” which might also be available from other sources. I don’t think it’s proprietary. Basically it is vinegar in a jellied form. It is supposed to work on all water based glues including Titebond. It wouldn’t work any better than plain vinegar but the consistency would keep it from going where you don’t want it to go. Never had an opportunity to use it but it sounds like a good idea.

Once you get the old glue out you might want to try hot hide glue for the next go round.

[HoGo]

Once you get the old glue out you might want to try hot hide glue for the next go round.

+1
And try not to remove wood, any gaps will reduce strength considerably. For cleaning I would go for de glue goo or vinegar on q-tips going slowly (not too wet) and thoroughly. I wouldn't go for steam as it would swell the wood and it would likely not fit too well after that.

[Jeff Mando]

I've always just picked out most of the glue with small picking tools like dental tools or miniature screwdrivers. Careful not to remove any wood, if possible. Your picture looks like there is fresh wood showing next to the previously repaired area. I would just try to remove as much dry glue as possible and call it good. No need to flush the area with liquids, IMHO.

Steam will soften glue, but is hot, messy, and hard to control where you want it. It will also "blush" a finish if too much moisture is used. I do use steam for removing necks, but that is with a needle fitting through a small hole into the neck block, so the steam is confined and is only done in small amounts necessary to release the neck. I would not use it for this repair.

I would also question why the first repair failed. Did the mandolin get dropped or bumped after the repair? Nothing wrong with Titebond. I've got two Gibson electric guitars, both with repaired pegheads that have been holding for 25+ years at this point. I am aware of the repairs and try to exercise reasonable caution when using them.

[Mando&Me]

Thanks to the recent posters. I'll kind of put my response to all of you in a single post.

1) Thanks for the tip on the "De Glue Goo." I found a place locally near my home that is a specialty woodworking shop, so I'll pick it up there and also pick their brains a bit.

2) On the neck re-breaking: I was extremely cautious with the repair and to the best of my knowledge never had an impacts or anything. It just gave way.

3) A lot of folks, as we know, have a lot of opinions about different glues, etc. There are a lot of great choices out there. But overall the opinion in my other thread was to go with marine epoxy. I doubt I'm sophisticated enough to attempt an overlay or backstrap, and I view this as a last-resort repair job, a go-for-broke situation where it if doesn't hold I will move on. If this were a Gibson F-5 or some such, I would pay for a professional repair.

I do tend to be somewhat methodical and cautious on a project like this, but I don't fool myself that I possess the skills a long-time luthier has. For all of those reasons, the strongest marine epoxy I can find was the consensus of many in that other thread.

Thanks,
Mando & Me

[multidon]

If you go with marine epoxy do not use anything where the hardener and the resin are mixed in equal parts. Epoxy like that is “dumbed down” to make it easier for the average person to measure. To accomplish this, inert fillers are added to the hardener which weaken the product. In reality, the hardeneris a much smaller quantity than the resin if the ingredients are pure. West System is a really good one.

[HoGo]

Whatever glue you will be using, you need clean fresh surfaces. Epoxy won't hold well on contamnated surfaces as well. But it will fill voids better than anything else without weakening the resulting joint.

[Nevin]

I think there are a few issues here. The first is if properly done the initial repair should have held unless there was more to the problem than was evident. Second time around repairs are much trickier. Even if you remove the surface glue it will have been absorbed into the pores of the wood making any bond using a traditional wood glue much less likely to hold. I have limited experience in this kind of repair in that I have done four. Three were successful; one was not. In each case break was complete making glue removal easier than in this case. I used Titebond on the one that failed, epoxy (West Systems) on one were there was significant wood missing and water thin CA (super glue) on the other two. Making good clamping cauls was essential to the job.

[Bernie Daniel]

I think there are a few issues here. The first is if properly done the initial repair should have held unless there was more to the problem than was evident. Second time around repairs are much trickier. Even if you remove the surface glue it will have been absorbed into the pores of the wood making any bond using a traditional wood glue much less likely to hold. I have limited experience in this kind of repair in that I have done four. Three were successful; one was not. In each case break was complete making glue removal easier than in this case. I used Titebond on the one that failed, epoxy (West Systems) on one were there was significant wood missing and water thin CA (super glue) on the other two. Making good clamping cauls was essential to the job.

The West Systems marine (2:1) epoxy is an excellent product. The Jamestown Distributors "Total Boat" series are essentially identical products. The JD product, "Thixo" comes in a 185 mL chalking tube which contains two bags the resin (epoxide) and the hardner (polyamine) 2 parts to 1 respectively. You can apply a mixing tip that results in the ejection of completely mixed components or you can eject the material directly from the tube into a mixing bowl and hand mix it with a wood paddle.

Either West Systems or Jamestown Distributors should give you the same result. The JD product is one day away on Amazon making it handy.

[Mando&Me]

Nevin & Bernie, thanks for your continued suggestions and due diligence. I'm going to clean the interior of the break several times, each letting it set for a day or two between. Then I will attempt the actual repair sometime in January, once the holidays have passed. I'll you and everyone else in the loop and supply photos as I go.

Thanks Again,
M&M