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Thread: Five large condensers and one ribbon mic on a F 5 style mandolin

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    Default Five large condensers and one ribbon mic on a F 5 style mandolin

    Hi picking fellows,

    I grabbed in the mic locker of my studio and did some mic shootouts: This time I chose five large condensers (all in cardioid pattern) and one ribbon microphone (figure of eight pattern) to display the different quality they give. I'd like to share it with you. Please tell me what you hear and what you prefer.

    Mics:
    AKG 414 Limited Edition
    Brauner phantom Anniversary Edition
    Neumann U 87 Ai
    Ear Trumpet "Edwina"
    Mojave MA 300 tube
    Coles 4038 (ribbon)

    Ellis F5 Special Deluxe custom
    Anton Krutz F5
    Lawrence Smart H 5 Mandola
    Gibson K 2 Mandocello
    Northfield mahogany arch top Octave Mandolin

    guitars, banjo, dobro, weissenborn, pedal steel, fretless bass, upright bass

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    Fingers of Concrete ccravens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Five large condensers and one ribbon mic on a F 5 style mando

    Message: "An error occurred" when trying to play.
    Chris Cravens

    Girouard A5
    Montana Flatiron A-Jr.
    Passernig Mandola
    Leo Posch D-18

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    harvester of clams Bill McCall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Five large condensers and one ribbon mic on a F 5 style mando

    Thanks for sharing. All are quite good, the Neumann and Ear Trumpet sounded a little clearer but I’d love any of them.

    What’s the tune title?
    Not all the clams are at the beach

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    Default Re: Five large condensers and one ribbon mic on a F 5 style mando

    I am a big fan of ribbon mics but I think the Neumann was ever so slightly better in this case

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    Registered User jefflester's Avatar
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    Default Re: Five large condensers and one ribbon mic on a F 5 style mando


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    Default Re: Five large condensers and one ribbon mic on a F 5 style mando

    Hi,

    thank you all for your feedback.
    The title of the tune is "The Pride of Petravore".
    Ellis F5 Special Deluxe custom
    Anton Krutz F5
    Lawrence Smart H 5 Mandola
    Gibson K 2 Mandocello
    Northfield mahogany arch top Octave Mandolin

    guitars, banjo, dobro, weissenborn, pedal steel, fretless bass, upright bass

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    F5G & MD305 Astro's Avatar
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    Default Re: Five large condensers and one ribbon mic on a F 5 style mando

    Nice playing and all great sounding mics. So the differences are pretty subtle. I would love to have any of them. So now I'm going to greatly exaggerate some differences I think I heard and pontificate as if I knew anything about which Im talking because that's what forums are for.

    First I guess there could be the question of which reproduces sounds the closest to the actual (which of course only you can tell us). But more interesting is the separate question as to which sounds the best since all mics leave their "color". Well everyone will have their opinion but I liked the Mojave and the Neuman the best because their "coloring" was less "bright" or more "mellow" and yet still "clear". The Coles sounded great too. Mid way on the clear/mellow spectrum. The Brauner was more mellow colored and maybe a little less clear or slightly muddier. I still liked it. I am exagerating to make a distinction. Maybe the volume was recorded or played slightly less too? On the other side of the spectrum, the Ear trumpets to me are very "clear" which to me is a little "bright" or to exaggerate my description maybe a little "harsh". Same (but less so) with the AKG.

    BTW, I have the Ear Trumpet Louise and I love it but it is very "clear" as well and maybe a tad "bright" which can sound harsher when I hear myself playing solo and I often wish it had a little mellower coloring- if I could get it without any increased muddiness. But perhaps the "clearer" or brighter sounding mics have an advantage when used before multiple instruments/ voices as in an ensemble when things can otherwise get muddy ?

    Anyway this was a great comparison demonstration. Thanks for posting.
    Last edited by Astro; Dec-18-2018 at 9:45pm.
    No matter where I go, there I am...Unless I'm running a little late.

  10. #8

    Default Re: Five large condensers and one ribbon mic on a F 5 style mando

    Neumann gets my vote too. I could probably live with any of them. The detail of the highs without any harshness won me over.
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    NY Naturalist BradKlein's Avatar
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    Default Re: Five large condensers and one ribbon mic on a F 5 style mando

    Nice, useful comparison.

    Giving a quick listen on an audio workstation with decent DA conversion and monitors - I found it an interesting comparison. The U87 sounded very distinct and clear all around. The Mojove seemed a bit more colored, but may be my favorite in this group. The Ear Trumpet seems a bit harsh, probably fine, or even useful for a live PA. I found the Brauner to be muddy. And the Coles has a lot to it, but maybe would benefit from tweaking in post?

    Thanks for posting!
    BradKlein
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    NY Naturalist BradKlein's Avatar
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    Default Re: Five large condensers and one ribbon mic on a F 5 style mando

    Just went back and spent a few more minutes with this video. Added a comparison with a high end set of headphones to the DAW set up and that makes a difference since I have much better low end repro in the cans.

    My general impressions stand, and if anything seem reinforced. I'll note that I'm not a studio engineer, but have some experience with music recording, mixes, and production.

    • AKG C 414 Limited Edition: Accurate and good but feels a bit flat and pick-clicky
    • Brauner Phantom Anniversary Edition: disappointing, muffled, muddy
    • Neumann U 87 Ai: Typical Neumann polished high end - sweet, but also accentuates pick click
    • Mojave MA 300 (tube): Pleasing high end without as much pick click, nice 'punch' to each note - still my Fave!
    • Ear Trumpet "Edwina": harsh high end, clickiest, good for live PA? Like an AT4033 but 50% more $$ for old-timey look
    • Coles 4038 (ribbon): great note attack, great clear low end, sounds 'out of balance' with mid-highs, needs a bit of eq?
    BradKlein
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    Default Re: Five large condensers and one ribbon mic on a F 5 style mando

    When the Brauner kicked in, I checked the YouTube settings. I thought it had kicked down to a more compressed stream. It's almost like there was something going on in the signal chain? Or maybe it's intentionally voiced for vocals and rolls off a lot of the trebles to reduce sibilance, etc.?
    The Neuman and Mojave both sounded great through my setup (Bose bookshelf speakers, nothing fancy).

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    Default Re: Five large condensers and one ribbon mic on a F 5 style mando

    Hi,
    great thanks to you all - it's really a pleasure to read about your experiences while listening to my comparison - thank you again !
    All mics went to the inputs of my RME interface. I played one time and recorded on six tracks.
    When I listen to the different sounds I would say that the AKG and the Neumann give the closest reproduction of the acoustic sound.
    I love the Coles but my mandolin doesn't benefit from its deep and thick sonic character for it sounds full and throaty. I used the Coles with great results on thin sounding mandolins and banjos in my studio.
    I wanted to include the Brauner because I love it on some vocals but it always sounds like lacking high mids. So no wonder it is not the perfect choice for recording mandolin.
    The Ear Trumpet would benefit from some proximity effect, I guess. I love its rounded trebles but in the recording here lacking low mids is the problem.
    My favourite mic for reproducing the acoustic sound of my mandolin is a Schoeps MK 4, but I didn't include it here. I did another comparison with some small condensers but are ready now to do it again after finding an old Neumann KM 84 for sale. I'll post it as soon as possible.

    Great thanks again !
    Bob
    Ellis F5 Special Deluxe custom
    Anton Krutz F5
    Lawrence Smart H 5 Mandola
    Gibson K 2 Mandocello
    Northfield mahogany arch top Octave Mandolin

    guitars, banjo, dobro, weissenborn, pedal steel, fretless bass, upright bass

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  18. #13
    NY Naturalist BradKlein's Avatar
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    Default Re: Five large condensers and one ribbon mic on a F 5 style mando

    Bob, You didn't mention the Mojave M-300, my surprise favorite (with the caveats I mentioned above).
    BradKlein
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    Default Re: Five large condensers and one ribbon mic on a F 5 style mando

    Brad, you are right - forgot about mentioning it. The Mojave MA 300 tube really shines on my mandolin for its warm and detailed sonic character. Being a tube mic it gives nice balance between chop power and melody playing.

    By the way, I just uploaded a mandolin comparison: One pair of Schoeps MK 4 microphones recording a Collins MF 5 deluxe varnish, a Brentrup M 23 varnish and my well words Collings MF 5.
    Ellis F5 Special Deluxe custom
    Anton Krutz F5
    Lawrence Smart H 5 Mandola
    Gibson K 2 Mandocello
    Northfield mahogany arch top Octave Mandolin

    guitars, banjo, dobro, weissenborn, pedal steel, fretless bass, upright bass

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    Registered User pit lenz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Five large condensers and one ribbon mic on a F 5 style mando

    Quote Originally Posted by mando-bob View Post
    Hi,
    I did another comparison with some small condensers but are ready now to do it again after finding an old Neumann KM 84 for sale. I'll post it as soon as possible.
    Bob
    Hey Bob, I can borrow you a 84 for your test if you want...

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    Default Re: Five large condensers and one ribbon mic on a F 5 style mando

    Hi Pit,
    that is very nice, thanks for your generous offer !
    I just got my new old KM 84 and man, what a microphone ! After recording for almost 20 years using KM 184 I bought me a Gefell M 300 a few years ago which I really like. New in my locker are a pair of Schoeps MK 4 and one additional MK 41 hypercardioid cap. Best I had (MK 4, on stage MK 41) so far, but if I had to pick one, it would be the KM 84.
    I will upload a comparison in January I guess.
    Ellis F5 Special Deluxe custom
    Anton Krutz F5
    Lawrence Smart H 5 Mandola
    Gibson K 2 Mandocello
    Northfield mahogany arch top Octave Mandolin

    guitars, banjo, dobro, weissenborn, pedal steel, fretless bass, upright bass

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    Registered User treidm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Five large condensers and one ribbon mic on a F 5 style mando

    Top 3, to my ears...
    414, U 87, MA 300 tube
    2011 Black A5 (#9) Mandolin
    1952 Gibson A-40N Mandolin
    1924 Gibson TB-1 Trapdoor Tenor Banjo
    1975 Gibson MK-35 Hybrid Braced Dreadnought Guitar
    1993 Washburn M3 SW/TS F-Style Mandolin
    2004 Martin D-16 GT Dreadnought Guitar
    2006 Martin DC-16RGTE AURA Dreadnought Guitar
    1997 Seagull S6 Dreadnought Guitar
    1970's Kay KB-52 5-String Banjo
    1960's Pirles 4-String Tenor Banjo

  23. #18
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    Default Re: Five large condensers and one ribbon mic on a F 5 style mando

    Hey Bob I too love the Coles the best. There is a presence or ambiance to the sound and it's bass response is superb. I just wanted to weigh in and say not everyone preferred the condensers.

    Blessings

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