Broken headstock on Eastman MD515

[grantula63]

I knocked my mandolin over while it was on its stand and its headstock snapped off. I am not capable of fixing it myself and want to take it to someone who is qualified to fix it. I have gotten a few estimates but they seem to be all over the place and apart from one, haven't really given me any details on what they would do to mend it, just that it is a difficult fix. They all say that it is worth it though. With my current knowlege, I don't want to be taken advantage of and I really don't want to get ripped off nor do I want a shoddy job performed on it because I went a cheap route. I'd really appreciate any advice on this or a good estimate on what the repair process would look like and cost? Break Pictured below

[mirwa]

Nasty break.

It will need some type of added re-inforcement, splines, back strap etc

Steve

[HoGo]

Looks like there is not much crossgrain break so it will glue back relatively nicely, but with that grain direction it likely won't hold safely without substantial backstrap.
Pretty bad piece of wood for neck and that large truss rod nut so close to nut weakened it badly in the most vulnerable spot. I try to keep the nut at least 1" from nut (like old Gibsons) so the thin part of neck- headstock transition is not unnecesarily weakened by the pocket.

[sunburst]

...Pretty bad piece of wood for neck and that large truss rod nut so close to nut weakened it badly in the most vulnerable spot. I try to keep the nut at least 1" from nut (like old Gibsons) so the thin part of neck- headstock transition is not unnecesarily weakened by the pocket.

Those observations are spot on. Poor wood choice and poor design contributed to the break, but at this point, it is what it is and you have a broken neck to repair.
Agree, it will need some reinforcement to be durable, so it is not a simple matter of gluing it back together, and a price estimate should reflect that. Ask your potential repair folks what their plan of attack is before making a decision.

[Folkmusician.com]

Welcome to the Cafe,

One of the few places you can come, ask a question and receive direct responses from world-class luthiers (the guys above, not me. haha).

[colorado_al]

I'm skeptical that a repair would be worth it. To properly repair would run a few hundred $ minimum. You'll have a substantial backstrap patch that might impact playability, unless you replace the entire neck & headstock.
You can buy a used MD515 for $750

PS- sorry for the bad news, and welcome to the Cafe!

[rcc56]

If it came to my shop, I would reinforce it heavily with a back strap. In addition, I would probably want to replace the upper veneer. After all of that, I would still worry about its long term durability.

This looks like a candidate for a neck replacement to me. Does anyone know if Eastman will sell a replacement neck?

[Br1ck]

Frank Ford has the fix at frets.com. Major job here.

I'd caution against doing a cheap repair. I think you are only going to get one chance with this.

[Bernie Daniel]

If it came to my shop, I would reinforce it heavily with a back strap. In addition, I would probably want to replace the upper veneer. After all of that, I would still worry about its long term durability.

This looks like a candidate for a neck replacement to me. Does anyone know if Eastman will sell a replacement neck?

Yup, as others have said-- that is a bad break. Sorry to see that -- I know what if feels like I had the exact same thing happen to me. I can still see that neck breaking in slow motion -- it seemed surreal at the time. Two things:

1) see this thread for a good discussion of the issue on a mandolin neck break very similar to yours.

2) One builder I know, Keith Terry, who lives in Springfield, Ohio will build you a new neck. You'd have to contact him for details see the builder section of the MC. There might be others as well.

But you'd still have to get the joint fitted and the fret board and face plate etc transferred over which is messy and not cheap

The suggestion in an earlier post (rcc56 # 7) makes me think you might try to get a call into Eastman to see if they offer any help at all - -including selling a neck? Odd that with as many mandolins as Eastman sells they have such a poor neck design.

[Jeff Mando]

I'm skeptical that a repair would be worth it. To properly repair would run a few hundred $ minimum. You'll have a substantial backstrap patch that might impact playability, unless you replace the entire neck & headstock.
You can buy a used MD515 for $750

PS- sorry for the bad news, and welcome to the Cafe!

I agree with Colorado Al. That's a $400 repair with no guarantees. There just isn't much wood to work with, even with adding splines, etc. I would weigh that cost against a USED 515. I just checked eBay and FOUR just sold between $540 and $636 -- all with cases. (some others sold for more, of course, but you are looking at an instrument that sells for $999 new, pretty much across the board) Factor that and you could probably sell yours as a project to a wannabee repairman for a couple hundred bucks, if you list it on eBay. So, for me it is a no-brainer........

Good luck!

[Bernie Daniel]

I agree with Colorado Al. That's a $400 repair with no guarantees. There just isn't much wood to work with, even with adding splines, etc. I would weigh that cost against a USED 515. I just checked eBay and FOUR just sold between $540 and $636 -- all with cases. (some others sold for more, of course, but you are looking at an instrument that sells for $999 new, pretty much across the board) Factor that and you could probably sell yours as a project to a wannabee repairman for a couple hundred bucks, if you list it on eBay. So, for me it is a no-brainer........

Good luck!

The problem I see with getting another Eastman 515 is that you have another mandolin with the truss rod pocket that is close to the nut and just waiting for a little tap to break again. In fact, that is also one of the arguments also against fixing this break. If you could get a new neck that has a better arrangement you might end up ahead? There is no inlay to move.

[Doug Brock]

Wow, it's scary to think that mando is that fragile, that falling over on the stand would snap off the head!

[Bernie Daniel]

Wow, it's scary to think that mando is that fragile, that falling over on the stand would snap off the head!

With that truss rod pocket so close to the nut it doesn't take much. Mine was sitting on a carpeted floor leaning and against a sofa. Someone sat down and the mandolin fell over and the end of the head stock struck a wooden chair railing on the way down. I watched it snap off. Hard to believe? Yes it was!

There is just not that much wood there in the narrow part of the head stock and carving the truss rod pocket takes even more of that wood away -- plus the fact that the strings are already putting a lot of stress on the neck.

[grantula63]

In all honesty, how much do you think I could sell it as a repair job? I bought mine used about a year ago for around $750 or so and am taking this as a sign that it might be time to save up and upgrade again! I'd like to get it repaired, but as far as having a reliable instrument goes, I might not want to invest into a fix if what people are saying about playability would turn out to be true.

[colorado_al]

In all honesty, how much do you think I could sell it as a repair job? I bought mine used about a year ago for around $750 or so and am taking this as a sign that it might be time to save up and upgrade again! I'd like to get it repaired, but as far as having a reliable instrument goes, I might not want to invest into a fix if what people are saying about playability would turn out to be true.

If you replace the neck you could probably sell it at about 2/3 of the used value for an undamaged one, so about $500. If you repair it with a backstrap, I think you'd be lucky to get half of that due to probable playability issues, maybe $250? If you sell it as a basket case you might get half of that.
You could always list it in the Classifieds and see if anyone makes you an offer.

[Charles E.]

Feed the MAS, you owe yourself a new mandolin for ChristMAS!

[HoGo]

In all honesty, how much do you think I could sell it as a repair job? I bought mine used about a year ago for around $750 or so and am taking this as a sign that it might be time to save up and upgrade again! I'd like to get it repaired, but as far as having a reliable instrument goes, I might not want to invest into a fix if what people are saying about playability would turn out to be true.

Repair by a good repair person will not cause any "playability issues". It will be as good as ever and if they include proper setup it may be even better than before. Someone like John Hamlett could just make it even look like it never happened.

[colorado_al]

Repair by a good repair person will not cause any "playability issues". It will be as good as ever and if they include proper setup it may be even better than before. Someone like John Hamlett could just make it even look like it never happened.

That is probably true, but not for a cost that makes sense on a $750 instrument. An affordable repair will not be seamless and you'll likely have a bit wider neck where the backstrap goes.
The cost of repair is in labor and either repairing the break or replacing the neck will both take plenty of it.
I'm sure that there are many who could make the instrument good as new or better, but not at a reasonable price compared to the value of the instrument.

[pops1]

The neck shouldn't be any wider with a backstrap than it is now. I wouldn't think there would be any play ability issues and it will most likely be stronger than when it was new.

[colorado_al]

The neck shouldn't be any wider with a backstrap than it is now. I wouldn't think there would be any play ability issues and it will most likely be stronger than when it was new.

I stand corrected. I'd love to see what estimate the OP gets for the repair. Regardless, the value of the repaired instrument will not be what it was before the damage.

[sunburst]

It can be repaired, playability does not have to suffer, it can even look good when finished, but all that comes at a cost, and the intrinsic value of this mandolin, in all likelihood, makes it not worth that kind of repair.

It is not uncommon for someone to bring up the possibility, in a situation like this, for it to be a learning experience for an aspiring/developing luthier. To me this actually does seem like a good candidate for a student luthier. He/she can learn about gluing, clamping uncooperative joints, reinforcing, finish work and other repair techniques. Also, and perhaps more importantly, he/she can learn some things about why we don't want to use wood with severe grain run out, why we don't want the truss rod pocket in the smallest, weakest part of the neck, and so forth. In other words, an aspiring repairman can learn about things to do and things not to do.

Perhaps the best resolution of this situation would be for the owner to sell this mandolin and buy a replacement. Might not come out ahead money-wise, but would probably come out better off than paying to repair this mandolin. If this mandolin were to come up for sale, a student luthier may do well to buy it and repair it, then play it or sell it. Financially, there is not much, if any, to gain, but the money not recovered can be considered tuition.

[Eric Oliver]

This break shows the poor grain orientation in the neck and maybe the peghead overlay.
That said, it didn't fail until the fall. The break appears clean, like it was all new.
Like pops1 said, the repair should be stronger than new.

[J.Albert]

After you buy the replacement, DON'T leave it sitting on a stand.

Keep it in the case, where it belongs.

[Bernie Daniel]

After you buy the replacement, DON'T leave it sitting on a stand.

Keep it in the case, where it belongs.

And if you drive around the town don't cross any intersections...

[grantula63]

After you buy the replacement, DON'T leave it sitting on a stand.

Keep it in the case, where it belongs.

The unfortunate thing is that it usually was. I had to set it down for a second while I was practicing. I bumped it over then.