Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: Gluing ebony to ebony

  1. #1

    Default Gluing ebony to ebony

    When gluing ebony to ebony what is the best glue?
    I know ebony is a very oily wood is there any special prep done before hand?
    Thanks
    " Practice every time you get a chance." - Bill Monroe

  2. #2
    Kelley Mandolins Skip Kelley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    2,702

    Default Re: Gluing ebony to ebony

    To answer both questions, I would use hide glue and prep the wood by wiping it off with acetone. By the way, I use hide glue to glue on fretboards and Iíve never prepped the board or had a issue.

  3. The following members say thank you to Skip Kelley for this post:


  4. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    S.W. Wisconsin
    Posts
    4,466

    Default Re: Gluing ebony to ebony

    I don't think ebony is as oily as other woods and like Skip, I have glued 100's of fingerboards on both violins and other instruments without prep. If you need to take one off for some reason it doesn't come off easy.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to pops1 For This Useful Post:


  6. #4
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    14,237

    Default Re: Gluing ebony to ebony

    It is important to have freshly prepared surfaces for the best bond regardless of what glue is used. In other words, wait until right before gluing to freshen the surface (scrape, sand, mill, whatever).
    No wiping with solvent is needed, refreshing the surface is much better for preparing the joint.
    I use hot hide glue also for gluing ebony in most cases.

  7. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to sunburst For This Useful Post:


  8. #5
    Adrian Minarovic
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Banska Bystrica, Slovakia, Europe
    Posts
    2,221

    Default Re: Gluing ebony to ebony

    For smal pieces like missing chip in bridge, gluing new layer on top of saddle to repair messed string slots or converting two footed bridge to single footed by fitting and gluing new piece of ebony I always use thin CA glue. I've made quite a few bridge bases out of fingerboard offcuts by laminating two together with CA. No failures yet. For larger surfaces I would go for HHG or other common glues.
    Adrian

  9. #6
    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Saint Augustine Beach FL
    Posts
    4,099

    Default Re: Gluing ebony to ebony

    As Hogo mentioned, if it small pieces of ebony, super glue works great.

    What exactly are you gluing?
    Charley

    A bunch of stuff with four strings

  10. #7
    Registered User Walt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    West Monroe, LA
    Posts
    287

    Default Re: Gluing ebony to ebony

    I had an ebony-to-ebony project this week, so I'll offer what I did (though the folks above certainly have more experience than I do). I sandwiched two pieces of macassar ebony for a floating tailpiece. I sanded the two surfaces, then wiped them down with denatured alcohol. I did this to clean the surface and try to remove some of the oil (but as stated above, that may be unnecessary). I then used thin CA glue and clamped for about 15 minutes. Everything seemed to turn out well. This glue joint won't be stressed, though, so it won't really be put to the test.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_4684.jpg 
Views:	29 
Size:	656.6 KB 
ID:	173178

  11. #8
    Certified! Bernie Daniel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    7,931
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: Gluing ebony to ebony

    What is the verdict on roughing the surfaces before applying the glue?

    I've always done that but lately reading a lot about epoxy glues I find some saying that step is not necessary?

    It the past have always wiped ebony and rosewood with acetone right before gluing. Maybe that step is a waste of time too?

    BTW I have used ethyl-cyanoacrylate and regular two component epoxy to glue ebony to ebony in both stressed and unstressed situations with good results.
    Bernie
    ____
    Due to current budgetary restrictions the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off -- sorry about the inconvenience.

  12. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    S.W. Wisconsin
    Posts
    4,466

    Default Re: Gluing ebony to ebony

    As John says above, freshly prepared surfaces make for a better bond. If you just made something then no problem, if the wood has been sitting around I sand or scrape to get a fresh surface for what ever glue I use.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

  13. #10
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    14,237

    Default Re: Gluing ebony to ebony

    Glues, generally speaking, have better adhesive strength in a bond than cohesive strength.That means that that glue molecules stick to wood better than they stick to themselves. If that is the case then the thinnest possible glue layer in the joint is strongest, in theory. For the thinnest glue layer, the glued surfaces should be as smooth and level as possible, or at least fit together as closely as possible. In light of that, surfaces should not be roughed.
    Some epoxy has much better cohesive strength than glues, and less adhesive strength. It is possible that roughing the surface can lead to more mechanical bond when using epoxy, but I'm not sure I've seen any evidence to support that.

    As for freshening the surface rather than wiping with solvents, I think I've posted this recently in another thread, but...

    When we remove wood from a wood surface we break molecular bonds. The molecules that were removed leave behind molecules on the surface that have just had their bonds broken, and that means that they are prime for bonding with some other molecule. Ideally, we want that to be a glue molecule if we are gluing the surface. If we wait, junk from the air and the environment will find those free radicals on the wood surface, and ultimately make the wood surface less susceptible to gluing. Wiping with solvent doesn't do much for removing the junk molecules that have adhered to the surface, but refreshing the surface by removing more wood molelules exposes a whole new array of free radicals ready to bond to glue molecules.

    A simple test to illustrate is to get two pieces of wood with old surfaces, refresh one and not the other. Spray with a mist of water and observe the water on the surface. On an old wood surface the water will "bead up" to one degree or another, but water will "sheet out" on a freshly prepared surface. The water molecules are attracted by the free radicals on the fresh surface, just like glue molecules.

  14. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to sunburst For This Useful Post:


  15. #11

    Default Re: Gluing ebony to ebony

    Free Radical Glue Surface- thx John, I just found a new band name!

    You will get a better bond and much deeper penetration of hot hide glue, along with a much longer working time, if you heat the two pieces up to about 105-110 degrees F before clamping than you will by wiping the boards down with alcohol or acetone. You can do all the cleaning you want and two clean cold boards will result in... a very clean but poor or failed joint, especially in the winter months when most of our shops are lower temperature than the summer months.

  16. The following members say thank you to grandcanyonminstrel for this post:


  17. #12
    Adrian Minarovic
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Banska Bystrica, Slovakia, Europe
    Posts
    2,221

    Default Re: Gluing ebony to ebony

    Quote Originally Posted by grandcanyonminstrel View Post
    ....especially in the winter months when most of our shops are lower temperature than the summer months.
    My shop is always warmer in winter as the heating unit for whole appartment block is just behind thin OSB wall from my shop and it goes to full power in winter. :-) No problem with HHG. I never wiped ebony, just scrape clean before gluing.
    Adrian

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •