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Thread: In Praise of Mediocrity (?)

  1. #26
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: In Praise of Mediocrity (?)

    To expand a little I would say this - never settle. I don't think it is good to praise mediocrity, or to resolve to be satisfied with it. We can always be better than we were. Resolve instead (IMO) to constant improvement. To be satisfied enough to enjoy where we are and what we can do, and unsatisfied enough to try and figure out what to fix and how to get on.

    How we are compared to others is irrelevant. There are always some better and some worse. How we are compared to genetic anomalies who have been playing better than us since before they could walk? Who cares.

    But there is nothing like the thrill of suddenly discovering that some finger busting riff is right there under your fingers. That thrill is worth the whole trip.
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    Default Re: In Praise of Mediocrity (?)

    I wish it were just effort that made you better but innate talent makes a big difference too. I wish i had that. I recently read a story about Jimmy Page's mandolin playing on the Battle of Evermore. The story claims that he had never played the mandolin before that day. He was waiting with John Paul Jones in the studio for the others to arrive. Jones had a mandolin with him that Jimmy started fooling around with. When Robert Plant arrived they recorded that song

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    mandolin slinger Steve Ostrander's Avatar
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    Default Re: In Praise of Mediocrity (?)

    My fans, friends and family say I’m good, I say I’m mediocre. I think they are being generous. Thankfully my mortgage doesn’t depend on my gig $$, but I make enough to afford a couple of good mandolins, basses and guitars, and that’s all I need.
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    String-Bending Heretic mandocrucian's Avatar
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    Default Re: In Praise of Mediocrity (?)



    "Yea, verily, screweth that over-talented young fop Wolfgang Amadeus. The people desire Salieri!" - Antonio Salieri


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    Default Re: In Praise of Mediocrity (?)

    I always hate it when people tell me I'm so talented. I'm not. I have been playing the mandolin for over 10 years. I've worked at it causally, but I've still worked at it. 10 years of working on it, even if most of that time it was all for fun, is still work. What I can do now is not what I could do at the beginning. As with everything, I gave myself permission to start at the beginning instead of expecting myself to start somewhere further along than that and then feeling bad about not being able to do it.

    You should make music even if you aren't the best at it. You can always get better and you don't have to be an expert to be good enough, to join in, to have fun. If not music, then you should do something else. Write, run a marathon, paint, make pottery, bake, knit, make wind chimes, make insightful comments at your book club, whatever. By doing creative things you expand your mind and you expand your world and you make life worth living for yourself and for others. You exercise your brain and that makes you more healthy. It's kind of a subversive act to do something for fun and for free and to give it away freely to others in a culture that would like to put a monetary value on every single thing in the universe.

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  11. #31
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    Default Re: In Praise of Mediocrity (?)

    I made the OP here, and have been enjoying the comments, whether serious or humorous. I find it interesting that, considering the wide range of musicians and luthiers -- from fumblers to masters -- at Mandolin Cafe, in thirty posts, no one has objected to the gist of what Tim Wu had to say in his article. To be fair to him, he used neither the word "mediocrity" nor "mediocre." The heading, In Praise of Mediocrity was probably created by a headline writer, who knows how to grab attention. I repeated the heading in the Thread title, where it certainly did get attention. I'm with Wu and with previous writers on this thread: we clearly don't all have the time, let alone the talent and focus to become great musicians or luthiers. Some people can do complex math in their head. Some can look at a motor and quickly figure out how it works. Others can understand Shakespeare or are able to do a back flip. We're not all blessed with both great "musical intelligence" and outstanding motor skills. No matter how hard we try most of us will never be able to play like (name your idol), any more than we can become Olympic sprinters or win a Nobel Prize for physics, simply because we weren't born with the inherent gifts. I don't like the idea of "mediocrity," but I'm willing to set more humble goals than "excellence." I've settled for being "competent" as my present musical goal, and if I achieve that, I'll aim for "good," and so forth. Like others, I never think of music as my hobby, but as Wu suggests, this is partly because of the degradation of the word "hobby." I have neither professional nor semi-professional goals, and my relationship with playing musical instruments fits the Oxford Canadian Dictionary's definition of hobby: "a favourite leisure-time activity or occupation." Wu's article reminds me to lighten up and not become discouraged by setting myself unrealistic goals.
    Robert Johnson's mother, describing blues musicians:
    "I never did have no trouble with him until he got big enough to be round with bigger boys and off from home. Then he used to follow all these harp blowers, mandoleen (sic) and guitar players."
    Lomax, Alan, The Land where The Blues Began, NY: Pantheon, 1993, p.14.

  12. #32

    Default Re: In Praise of Mediocrity (?)

    If I desired to be the best mandolin player for miles around, I'd just move to north east Nevada. If that didn't work, I'd buy a boat and head for Hawaii solo.
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    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: In Praise of Mediocrity (?)

    After a while you confront your body & aging ,, swelling, numbness ,
    Just a few side effects of over use .

    so I plateau.. also I never lived in musical hot spots.. could not afford the Rent.




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    Registered User foldedpath's Avatar
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    Default Re: In Praise of Mediocrity (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranald View Post
    I made the OP here, and have been enjoying the comments, whether serious or humorous. I find it interesting that, considering the wide range of musicians and luthiers -- from fumblers to masters -- at Mandolin Cafe, in thirty posts, no one has objected to the gist of what Tim Wu had to say in his article.
    This isn't quite an objection, more like an observation. I don't disagree with anything in the article because it was presented in a framework that assumed a solo hobby, not interacting with others doing the same thing. Every example of an activity listed was a solo pursuit, not a group effort like playing together with other amateur musicians.

    Once you start playing with others, the social dynamics make things a lot more complicated. It may not be enough to be "happy where you are" because -- unlike judging yourself against famous artist recordings -- you're now judging how well you fit in with others of varying degrees of skill.

    It can be frustrating to learn that the group is playing at a higher level than you are, and now you're going to have to re-calibrate your goals. That can also be uplifting; a motivator, if you actually do want to improve your playing. Or you could remain happy at your level, join in anyway, and risk dragging down the group effort by not getting up to speed. I've seen that happen a few times, with musicians more interested in social interaction than the musical aspects of a jam.

    If you live in or near a big city, it might be easy to find people who want to play at your personal comfort level. If you're out in the boondocks, it may require a different calibration.

    Again, not disagreeing completely with the article, but it's just not that simple once you start playing with other amateurs as a group effort. That's very different from a personal hobby pursuit.

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    Registered User Ranald's Avatar
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    Default Re: In Praise of Mediocrity (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by foldedpath View Post
    This isn't quite an objection, more like an observation. I don't disagree with anything in the article because it was presented in a framework that assumed a solo hobby, not interacting with others doing the same thing. Every example of an activity listed was a solo pursuit, not a group effort like playing together with other amateur musicians.

    Once you start playing with others, the social dynamics make things a lot more complicated. It may not be enough to be "happy where you are" because -- unlike judging yourself against famous artist recordings -- you're now judging how well you fit in with others of varying degrees of skill.

    It can be frustrating to learn that the group is playing at a higher level than you are, and now you're going to have to re-calibrate your goals. That can also be uplifting; a motivator, if you actually do want to improve your playing. Or you could remain happy at your level, join in anyway, and risk dragging down the group effort by not getting up to speed. I've seen that happen a few times, with musicians more interested in social interaction than the musical aspects of a jam.

    If you live in or near a big city, it might be easy to find people who want to play at your personal comfort level. If you're out in the boondocks, it may require a different calibration.

    Again, not disagreeing completely with the article, but it's just not that simple once you start playing with other amateurs as a group effort. That's very different from a personal hobby pursuit.
    Foldedpath, I take your point. I've been at both ends of the group experience, i.e., not good enough to keep up with the group, and frustrated by other group-members, who make no effort to learn new tunes, improve their group playing, or even work out how many beats are in a line of music. A solo guitar player and singer can often get away with breaking rhythm, while a person playing with others has to follow a predictable and regular beat, except in some forms of crooked music, or if the singer is giving the band a good paycheque at the end of the week -- then they'll learn to follow that person. As you suggest, even an amateur has a certain responsibility to others in the group to try to do a good job and improve skills to the level where we're contributing to and not holding back the group. If the group is highly skilled or ambitious and the individual isn't, perhaps they don't belong in that particular group.
    Robert Johnson's mother, describing blues musicians:
    "I never did have no trouble with him until he got big enough to be round with bigger boys and off from home. Then he used to follow all these harp blowers, mandoleen (sic) and guitar players."
    Lomax, Alan, The Land where The Blues Began, NY: Pantheon, 1993, p.14.

  19. #36

    Default Re: In Praise of Mediocrity (?)

    “Playing the guitar is all very well, John, but you'll never make a living at it.”

    That was what John Lennon's Aunt Mimi who was responsible for his upbringing had to say. In fact, she was probably right but not in his case and that would have been the prevailing view 60 years ago. I seem to recall he had that quote framed and stuck on the wall but I can't remember if it was in her house!

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    Default Re: In Praise of Mediocrity (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by NickR View Post
    “Playing the guitar is all very well, John, but you'll never make a living at it.”

    That was what John Lennon's Aunt Mimi who was responsible for his upbringing had to say. In fact, she was probably right but not in his case and that would have been the prevailing view 60 years ago. I seem to recall he had that quote framed and stuck on the wall but I can't remember if it was in her house!
    I'd say Lennon made his living more from his singing and songwriting and performing, rather than just "guitar playing".

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    Default Re: In Praise of Mediocrity (?)

    Ok, so here is why I am such a pathetic and cheap bassard.... Like Br1ck hinted at, playing professionally taints things and decreases the enjoyment of the pursuit altogether. I started out hell-bent to be a pro and got there quite quickly, where I then realized I didn't have what it takes to remain there. I won't go into detail but suffice it to say that the enjoyment began diminishing rapidly and the stress increasing. Monetary considerations interfered with my creative processes. On the whole, I realized I needed to go back to making music for smiles, laughter, and good times. So I gave up playing professionally. I still wonder sometimes, but deep down I know I play better for free.

    Now that's just me I suppose. Ymmv. Blessings all.

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    Default Re: In Praise of Mediocrity (?)

    Been at it for a few years for FUN but awhile ago I was voicing frustration at my "mediocre" playing & the guitar player in our band said "you know I'll never hit a golf ball like Tiger Woods but I'm going to keep playing" That kinda stuck with me and took some pressure off a very mediocre player.
    Lou

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    Default Re: In Praise of Mediocrity (?)

    I prefer to be surrounded by folks better than me. Makes me work harder.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

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    Default Re: In Praise of Mediocrity (?)

    I hear this sometimes when someone drinks a beer I've brewed. "You're going to open a brewery one day!"

    Well, no, I'm not. First, I taste off flavors in every beer I make. They're pretty good, and I enjoy them because they're mine, but my amber ale is not better than Bell's, and except by some fluke, it likely never will be. I don't make it often enough, and I don't want to. This leads to the second reason: being a professional brewer (or mandolin player, or motorcycle driver, or carpenter) takes a ton of discipline and focus. I want to be able to brew on a whim, or to learn a song because I feel like fiddling around with it, not because I have some deadline or clientele's expectations to meet. It's fun that way. I already have too many otherwise interesting skills that have become a job.

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    Default Re: In Praise of Mediocrity (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    I prefer to be surrounded by folks better than me. Makes me work harder.
    It think it might have been Jeff Baxter whom I first heard say: 'Never be the best player in the band.'

    He is absolutely right . . . but then again, with my skill level, that is just about IMPOSSIBLE!

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    Default Re: In Praise of Mediocrity (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeZito View Post
    In reality - mediocrity is MUCH more common than exceptional skill . . . and, in my humble opinion, there are some people who do things 'professionally' whose skill level is, at best, less than mediocre; (i.e., take a walk though a 'Modern Art' gallery sometime!).
    Or look at the average enterprise scale software application
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    Oval holes are cool David Lewis's Avatar
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    Default Re: In Praise of Mediocrity (?)

    My philosophy for teaching the instrument (10 years, play professionally) (in fact all instruments I teach) is that you PLAY music, you don't WORK music. A student (child or adult) has to be comfortable at the level they're at, but be prepared to be pushed out a little way... If you're having fun, you're having fun.

    I think we NEED more hobby players... I think we need more informal jams, singalongs, impromptu performances. If I could do anything else, I'd happily play for fun... alas I need to be paid so as my mortgage, etc gets paid.

    (Clarification: most of my gig money comes from guitar. But I often have a Mando, and they appreciate it when I play it)
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    Default Re: In Praise of Mediocrity (?)

    Yes, we definitely need more hobby players.

    A few years ago I went for a 3000 mile hike. Now nobody will go hiking with me because they think I'm "too fast". Well, first of all, that was long enough ago that I'm out of shape again. But most of all, you don't have to walk fast to walk far. I walked at a slow 2.5 mile per hour pace and when I got back I struggled to keep up on hikes with my friends. But still, nobody would go hiking with me afterwards. They would declare I was too fast (I was in the back trying to keep up!) or that my hikes were too strenuous (I consistently led medium hikes.) But someone was spreading rumors about me solely because they were overly fan-boy impressed by my big adventure. It made me quit leading hikes for the Sierra Club because nobody would show up because of the undeserved reputation I had.

    I feel the same about music. I would not want to be so good nobody wants to play with me. If all you can have are professionals or virtuosos and everybody else has to just watch, that's not fun for anybody. It certainly hasn't been fun to have people think I'm some sort of professional hiker.

    And the thing about if you do anything creative everybody says "You could make money doing that!" I hate that. I made my own shoes for a while (because my feet hurt and got really big from all that hiking) and when people found out I made my shoes they'd say "you should open up a shop and sell them!" Why would I want to do that? It's a lot of work to make shoes and most of the ones I made didn't fit right anyway. They were very humble shoes, too.

    If you bake they think you should open a bakery. If you make beer in your garage they think you should open a brew pub. If you paint you should sell your art at the art show. If you play music with half-way any skill they think you should be in a band. It's crazy. The world needs more amateurs if for no other reason than to stop people from saying these things.

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    Default Re: In Praise of Mediocrity (?)

    Excuse my ignorance as a non-hiker........how long does it take to hike 3000 miles? I got out my pocket calculator.....2.5 miles an hour times 8 hours is 20 miles a day......that would be 150 days, right? What am I missing? Who has that kind of time? Fulfillment of a life-long dream? Help me out here......

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    Peace. Love. Mandolin. Gelsenbury's Avatar
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    Default Re: In Praise of Mediocrity (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by foldedpath View Post
    Once you start playing with others, the social dynamics make things a lot more complicated. It may not be enough to be "happy where you are" because -- unlike judging yourself against famous artist recordings -- you're now judging how well you fit in with others of varying degrees of skill.

    It can be frustrating to learn that the group is playing at a higher level than you are, and now you're going to have to re-calibrate your goals.
    I recently gave up going to a session where I'd been an irregular participant for a number of years. At no point did I ever come near the level at which this group can play and likes to play. My reasons for leaving were about time management, and this group of people will always be in my heart as my first introduction to sessions. But, although leaving hasn't made me a better player, it's made me a less frustrated player.

    This personal anecdote is to illustrate your good point that being content with your own progress is difficult when playing with others.

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    Default Re: In Praise of Mediocrity (?)

    I agree with others (above), that it's valuable to play with people who are better than you. However, if they're too much better, the experience can be frustrating unless they're very indulgent and supportive. If you're trying to work out what key a tune is in when the group is halfway through the second verse, it's probably not a great learning experience. I've heard of fiddle jams in British Columbia that start with an all-inclusive jam, but narrow down to the best players over the course of an afternoon. Everyone gets to play for a while at their own level, then can listen and learn from the better players who show what they're capable of, including individual solos. In many jams, there's a kind of lowest common denominator, which includes all, but one never gets to hear what the really good musicians are capable of.

    David Lewis said, "I think we NEED more hobby players... I think we need more informal jams, singalongs, impromptu performances. If I could do anything else, I'd happily play for fun... alas I need to be paid so as my mortgage, etc gets paid." I agree, David. Folk music, which many of us profess to play, is essentially music played for a folk group, that is a group of people who share many commonalities (e.g., some combination of geography, language, gender, occupation, religion, ethnicity, age, economics, and kinship). Sometimes people are paid for this, but in my experience when I was growing up in the Maritimes (I was born in the early 1950's), fiddles, guitars, and pianos were played in homes, where we also had singsongs, often around a piano. Few people associated musical pastimes with making money, except for perhaps earning a few dollars for playing a dance now and then. My 97-year-old mother says, regarding step-dancing, "I liked when an old fella would get up and do a few steps, then another old fella would follow," as opposed to the choreographed show dances, often by troupes, so common today. Anyway, to quote the American folksinger, Bruce "Utah" Phillips, "There are no good career moves in folk music" -- if you want to be popular, play popular music. In Ottawa, we have a great many opportunities to gather and sing, but a limited number of gatherings where fair-to-middlin' players can get together and play a few tunes. Let's try to create more of these opportunities wherever we live.
    Robert Johnson's mother, describing blues musicians:
    "I never did have no trouble with him until he got big enough to be round with bigger boys and off from home. Then he used to follow all these harp blowers, mandoleen (sic) and guitar players."
    Lomax, Alan, The Land where The Blues Began, NY: Pantheon, 1993, p.14.

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    Default Re: In Praise of Mediocrity (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Mando View Post
    Excuse my ignorance as a non-hiker........how long does it take to hike 3000 miles? I got out my pocket calculator.....2.5 miles an hour times 8 hours is 20 miles a day......that would be 150 days, right? What am I missing? Who has that kind of time? Fulfillment of a life-long dream? Help me out here......
    Yeah, it took me about 180 days, counting the days off I took. Sometimes I hiked 30 or more miles a day, sometimes less. I hiked the Pacific Crest Trail. I did about half of it in 2008 and half in 2009, but in 2009 I decided I would hike out my front door in Santa Barbara and hike TO the PCT and then re-hike a couple hundred miles in the desert. Because of forest fires and wimping out over super high creek water, my hike wasn't continuous, but I did hike the whole thing and the longest continuous section was from Interstate 5 near Mt. Shasta City to the Canadian border. A life-long dream that I'd like to do again someday.

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    Default Re: In Praise of Mediocrity (?)

    That sounds great! I wish I had tried something like that when I was younger. Looks like it would be great for the soul/spirit, if the body can keep up!

    Is a mandolin out of the question for such a hike? Or is the space/weight needed for other essentials?

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