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Thread: Mandolin and Dulcimer

  1. #1

    Default Mandolin and Dulcimer

    I have played mandolin since 1987 but never with anyone. Now my girlfriend wanted to play with me but come to find out her hands can't play the mandolin (to weak). So I suggested and bought a stick dulcimer. She can press down on those strings. But my problem is which tunning would I use on the dulcimer to go with the mandolin? Most of the stuff I play is 1 or two sharps and an occasional Bflat. If anyone has tried to mix these two instruments any hints or leads to information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

    Calvin De Beverly

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  3. #2
    Worlds ok-ist mando playr Zach Wilson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin and Dulcimer

    Well, she wants you to play with her. I'd suggest that since she is learning a new instrument and you already know yours you take it easy on her and play whatever keys are easiest for her to fret.

    Most Dulcimers (and Dulcimer instruction) are in D or G. I'd stick with that giving her an easier opportunity to learn.

    Good luck making beautiful music together.

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    Default Re: Mandolin and Dulcimer

    Quote Originally Posted by Zach Wilson View Post
    Well, she wants you to play with her. I'd suggest that since she is learning a new instrument and you already know yours you take it easy on her and play whatever keys are easiest for her to fret.

    Most Dulcimers (and Dulcimer instruction) are in D or G. I'd stick with that giving her an easier opportunity to learn.

    Good luck making beautiful music together.
    Exactly!

    There are alternate tunings for dulcimer, but not many people use them. Too avant garde. Let her learn to play the normal way.

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    Default Re: Mandolin and Dulcimer

    I have used one of my dulcimers in the band a couple of times (probably 7 or 8 years ago). DAD tuning worked best for me.
    David Hopkins

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    Default Re: Mandolin and Dulcimer

    A mandolinist's dream, the band always plays in G or D. :-)

    Some of the finest mandolinists in the world are women. It's possible the right setup and .009s could perhaps make a mandolin playable for her (and don't forget tall frets). At least that was my recipe. And those women don't play .009's either.

    Dulcimers are cool though, and having two different instruments does make a better duo. The sustain on those should make it easy for her to do chordal accompaniment pretty quickly. I can find lots of online dulcimer lessons too.

    There was a vid here recently on a dulcimer maker in a town filled with dulcimer love. Was a good watch.
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    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin and Dulcimer

    I started out on dulcimer then went to mandolin. Start with fiddle tunes in D, dulcimer tuned DAD. You have a wealth at your fingertips.

    I would get a regular lap dulcimer for her though, the sound will be better for it as well as playability.

    Have fun!
    Charley

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    Default Re: Mandolin and Dulcimer

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles E. View Post
    I started out on dulcimer then went to mandolin. Start with fiddle tunes in D, dulcimer tuned DAD. You have a wealth at your fingertips.

    I would get a regular lap dulcimer for her though, the sound will be better for it as well as playability.

    Have fun!
    Yes!! A lap dulcimer.

    I used to make them and once I made a hammered dulcimer. Never again. I believe I'd rather spend a week in jail than go through that again. And tuning them?? Tuning a hammered dulcimer with three bridges is like nailing Jell-O to a tree. When I got out of therapy, I gave them up.

    I do still have two lap dulcimers: the first one I ever made and one that sounds like a Martin guitar!
    David Hopkins

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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin and Dulcimer

    Have a listen to the CD recorded by Butch Baldassari & David Schnaufer,both now sadly passed away - ''Appalachian Mandolin & Dulcimer''. There are some really great tunes on there. ''Muddy Roads'' is terrific !,
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    Default Re: Mandolin and Dulcimer

    I feel I can speak pretty well on this subject given that I have played in a “folk band” with four Appalachian dulcimers in it for almost ten years now. When this group first started they were dulcimers only. Then they added a guitar player. Then my wife and I joined the group. She plays bass (electric) or bass dulcimer (one octave lower than normal dulcimer), and, depending on the song, I switch from hammered dulcimer to mandolin or harp (26 string levered folk harp). I also play Appalachian dulcimer, but not with this group. They don’t need that. The instruments I contribute gives them more tonal variety.

    I will echo much of what has already been said. Why a stick dulcimer? My experience with those has been negative. They don’t sound very good, they just don’t have enough sound box to produce any volume. The transition to a lap (Appalachian ) dulcimer will be kind of tricky, it’s a different skill set and position. Technique is all different. For example, you can’t really use your left thumb on a stick dulcimer but it’s actually encouraged on the lap, Appalachian, mountain dulcimer (whatever you want to call it).

    It always amazes me what a nice instrument you can get in a dulcimer as opposed to fiddle, guitar, mandolin, etc. Right around 500 dollars or so gets you into a hand made, solid wood, good quality, USA craftsman made dulcimer. Also it’s easy to find really good used ones for 200-300 dollars. And I mean, really good. Mind boggling for those of us used to having to pay thousands for an equivalent guitar or mandolin. The biggest piece of advice I can give, though, is make sure your dulcimer has a “6 1/2 “ fret. This fret between the traditional 6th and 7th frets is essential for modern playing styles.

    You don’t have to alter your mandolin tuning at all. Just leave it in GDAE. The dulcimer should be tuned DAD. This is what is most useful for modern “chord melody” style. Traditional tuning is DAA, which is useful for the old time “noter drone” style, where you have the lower D and A strings droning along with the melody. Some like this style and tuning, but I find it limiting after awhile. It is very important to get it strung with a string set meant for DAD. I use .010-.010-.014-.022W. A good beginners book is “First Lessons in Dulcimer DAD Tuning”, published by Mel Bay. There are others of course.

    With that tuning you can probably guess that much music for dulcimer is in the key of D. And that is an easy key for mandolin. You should have no trouble. There is a capo for dulcimer you can get that makes playing in the key of G easy too. Just capo 3rd fret and there you go. It has to be a special dulcimer capo. Capos for instruments with a neck won’t work.

    Just one final word about the comment above concerning hammered dulcimer. Personally, I love mine! It is a beast, I admit, but it can be tamed!

    I hope all of this helps, and you have fun playing together. But if you could just get her off that stick, and into a real dulcimer, that would be a step in the right direction.
    Don

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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin and Dulcimer

    Don - If you play Hammered Dulcimer,you're very blessed man !. I adore that instrument,i love the sound of the Autoharp too.

    I first heard Alisa Jones (Grandpa Jones' daughter) play this tune on the CD by David Grier & Mike Compton ''Climbing the Walls'' - ''Over The Waterfall'' - awesome !,
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    Default Re: Mandolin and Dulcimer

    Dang it Ivan, you beat me to it! "Appalachian Mandolin and Dulcimer" is a heck of an album.

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    Default Re: Mandolin and Dulcimer

    You might also try a Martin mandolin, the scale is 13", so shorter, and requires light strings. With a good setup it should be easy to fret.
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    Default Re: Mandolin and Dulcimer

    Thanks for the link to Alisa Jones, Ivan! She’s quite good!

    My favorite instrument is the one I’m playing at the moment. But lately I’ve been finding that my hammered dulcimer and harp are moving to the forefront while my mandolin is moving more to the background. Eventually, I may give up everything but those two. Why? Mandolin, guitar, and even Appalachian dulcimer aggravate my arthritis and chronic tendinitis. Hammered dulcimer and harp do not.
    Don

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    Default Re: Mandolin and Dulcimer

    I really enjoy modal music from lap dulcimers.

    Unfortunately, makers have taken to inserting an extra fret to render the instrument more "useful" or something, destroying the concept of modal tuning and making the playing of a "wrong" note far too likely.

    The reason for the original fretting was exactly that: it was not possible to play a note outside of the proper scale.

    "Alternate" tunings for Appalachian dulcimer is a misnomer. The relationship between the melody string(s) and the drones is the whole point and determinant of modal music.

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    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin and Dulcimer

    But Bob, some folks need that extra fret to play "Jazz Dulcimer".
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    not a donut Kevin Winn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin and Dulcimer

    Love the sound of a dulcimer and mandolin together. Thanks for these links!

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    Default Re: Mandolin and Dulcimer

    Quote Originally Posted by calvindebeverly View Post
    I have played mandolin since 1987 but never with anyone. Now my girlfriend wanted to play with me ...
    That by itself is so valuable. So amazingly fortuitous, I would raise heaven and earth to make it work. Whatever it takes, man. Whatever it takes.
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    Default Re: Mandolin and Dulcimer

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    That by itself is so valuable. So amazingly fortuitous, I would raise heaven and earth to make it work. Whatever it takes, man. Whatever it takes.
    Truth. My fiance is a talented violin player and I have to beg her to play tunes with me

  25. #19

    Default Re: Mandolin and Dulcimer

    Here's a nice site for Lap and Hammered dulcimer instruction:

    https://www.dulcimercrossing.com/
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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin and Dulcimer

    There are a few nice YouTube clips of a girl Hammered Dulcimer player from the UK who goes by the name of 'Dizzi',both solo & with her friend & fellow Dulcimer player,Emily,
    Ivan
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    Default Re: Mandolin and Dulcimer

    Bob- you are correct about the original fret placement and modal tuning on a dulcimer. But the instrument and it’s playing technique have have both evolved. The most popular way of playing mountain dulcimer these days is clearly DAD chord melody style. For that the 6 1/2 fret is a necessity. You practically can’t buy an instrument without one. And having one doesn’t preclude you from using DAA and playing traditional noter drone style modally if you just learn to skip it! Some makers are putting in other extra frets, up to and including a fully chromatic fretboard. That, to me, is going way too far, but someone likes them or nobody would make them!

    We must face the fact that instruments evolve and, presumably, improve. If that were not true, Bluegrass mandolinists would be playing on 13” scale bowlbacks with fixed bridges and no truss rod. Hammered dulcimers have evolved too, through the efforts of folks like Sam Rizzetta and Russell Cook. We now have chromatic options, extended range, improved construction, and dampers that the old ones didn’t have. Most dulcimer players have embraced the improvements. That said, I know of at least one “traditional” dulcimer festival where extra frets and DAD tuning is strictly prohibited! Modal, noter drone style only, thank you very much! So there is plenty of room in the dulcimer world to embrace everyone!

    Ivan, it’s nice to see the hammered dulcimer is still being played in the UK. That’s where the instrument seems to have originated, at least in its modern form. It used to be played on street corners there by what we would call buskers. When the colonists brought it to America, it became more of a parlor instrument for well to do ladies. And how it has evolved from there! Those ladies play very well together. Thanks again for the link.

    There used to be a great site for players of both types of Dulcimers called Everything Dulcimer. I used to be quite active there. Unfortunately they shut down earlier this year. I miss having a place where I can talk dulcimer.
    Don

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  29. #22

    Default Re: Mandolin and Dulcimer

    I miss Everything Dulcimer as well, nice collection of music they had there. I had a very nice dogwood-topped dulcimer made for me by Jack Ferguson at a very reasonable price, I highly recommend anyone interested in buying a dulcimer check him out at www.appflutes.com He is based near my hometown of Blacksburg, and the dogwood was an additional nice salute to my Virginia roots. I have been pondering getting a second dulcimer for DAA.

  30. #23

    Default Re: Mandolin and Dulcimer

    Quote Originally Posted by multidon View Post
    ... in the UK. That’s where the instrument seems to have originated, at least in its modern form. It used to be played on street corners there by what we would call buskers. When the colonists brought it to America, it became more of a parlor instrument...
    Re HD:

    The (hackbrett) instrument was of course popular in Germany and disseminated throughout the Great Lakes region by way of the timber industry, where it was popular in logging camps. Many builders in New York in the 1800s, and migrated westward. These instruments retained their large box construction and multi-string courses for volume.

    http://www.giffordmusic.net

    What the HD lacks in subtlety (relatively constant note contour) is made up by its efficiency in volume, etc. Personally, I feel the instrument lacks sonic character to be interesting, but is great for dances where its pitched-percussive essence is an asset.

    I played a lot of Scots/Irish trad - session tunes - as well as polkas and breakdowns as was popular in Dutch Hop from Michigan to Colorado. But what I essentially used HD for was a surrogate for harp tunes until I finally acquired a wire harp.

  31. #24

    Default Re: Mandolin and Dulcimer

    ...Oh, (for dance tunes) and airs and other slow music, such as you'd expect.

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    Default Re: Mandolin and Dulcimer

    My Wife and I do a Mandolin/Dulcimer set sometimes. I really like it although they take up kind of the same "sonic Space" in the midrange so you have to be kind of careful about stepping on each other. She has 3 Dulcimers: a D, a G and an A, and a Capo which covers most keys. Usually we just do 4-5 songs in D and so she doesn't have to change them. Here are a few we do

    Medley: St Anne's Reel/Liberty
    Banks of the Ohio
    Darcy Farrow
    Over the Waterfall
    Cora is Gone
    Lost Highway
    Cluck old Hen

    Singing is a bit of a challenge, but if we carefully schedule who does what when it works. If I'm playing the melody, Dulcimer plays chords mostly and vice versa. During vocals most often we both play chords. Biggest Challenge is playing amplified.

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