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Thread: Want to learn Jazz mandolin

  1. #126
    Oval holes are cool David Lewis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Want to learn Jazz mandolin

    Also, to learn jazz, you’ve got to know the blues.
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  3. #127
    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Want to learn Jazz mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidKOS View Post

    I firmly believe you cannot play bop well unless you can play swing.

    You cannot play swing well unless you can play trad (aka "Dixieland") jazz.

    And you cannot play trad unless you can play the blues and ragtime.
    Quote Originally Posted by David Lewis View Post
    Also, to learn jazz, you’ve got to know the blues.
    As you see, you agree with me on this.

  4. #128
    Oval holes are cool David Lewis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Want to learn Jazz mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidKOS View Post
    As you see, you agree with me on this.
    Seems so.
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  6. #129

    Default Re: Want to learn Jazz mandolin

    Maybe, but just two guys opinions.

    Ymmv

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  8. #130

    Default Re: Want to learn Jazz mandolin

    To you all who participated in this great thread, many thanks. It about makes me want to cry for my drums. I love jazz more than anything in music.

    * oh and I did want to remember John Abecrombie whose records I collected because Pete Erskine was on them, and Towner, et al. But other cats have passed too, if I could but remember who..

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  10. #131
    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Want to learn Jazz mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill McCall View Post
    Maybe, but just two guys opinions.

    Ymmv
    One of which is a native New Orleans jazz musician, which makes it his folk music.

    And like other things, we all have opinions.

    The other opinion would be something like "you don't have to know how to play blues to play jazz".

    Tell that to Armstrong, ellington, Basie, Parker, Coltrane, Davis, etc.

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  12. #132
    Registered User Tom Wright's Avatar
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    Default Re: Want to learn Jazz mandolin

    We need to distinguish jazz blues from delta and Chicago blues. Jazz blues is jazz on a 12-bar blues chord progression. “St. Louis Blues” does not share much with “Born Under a Bad Sign”. What is shared are the melodic elements, which, to my ears, are the easy riffs one can do on guitar. Those are present in all popular music, including jazz. But jazz also uses Jelly Roll Morton piano figures, and Dixieland rhythms, and show-tune harmonies.
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  14. #133

    Default Re: Want to learn Jazz mandolin

    [QUOTE=DavidKOS;1740255..........And like other things, we all have opinions.

    The other opinion would be something like "you don't have to know how to play blues to play jazz".......[/QUOTE]

    No, another opinion is 'don't confuse the historic origins of the music with the development path of all modern players.'
    Play it like you mean it.

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  16. #134
    Joe B mandopops's Avatar
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    Default Re: Want to learn Jazz mandolin

    Following up on what Mr Wright said about distinguishing Jazz Blues from delta to Chicago Blues, I don't think the distance is Always that far. Most of the early big name Chicago guys, Muddy & Wolf, came from the Delta Blues & their Music took an Uptown turn once they reached Chicago. Muddy was almost exclusively a slide player until me met Blue Smitty & learned a citified approach. Guitar players such as Louis Meyers & Robert Lockwood, in their backing of Harp player Little Walter, certainly borrowed chord extensions & voices they shared with Jazz players. Even some early Buddy Guy, you'll hear some Grant Green & Burrel borrowings. I heard Sammy Lawhorn (& got to jam with him) use similar chord ideas, even ending a tune with a major 7th. Wayne Bennet backed up Bobby Bland & was a quite sophisticated player. I got to hear him back up Bobby once in Chicago in a rare reunion. He was very tasty.
    When ever I heard B.B. live, I would pay attention to what ever rhythm guitar (or Piano) player would play behind him. Again, very tasty.
    There may be artificial walls between Jazz & Blues, but there are cracks in those walls. Ever hear Chuck Berry play St. Louis Blues? Quite fun.
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  18. #135
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    Default Re: Want to learn Jazz mandolin

    That looks like good material. There's some other resources i like, https://www.jazzadvice.com/ and Jens Larsen's youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/jenslarsen02/videos. And Dix Bruce's swing jazz tab books (for mando, guitar, violin)

    This was a good recent thread, enough people have mentioned Barry Harris that i think i will commit some time to the method https://mandolincafe.com/forum/threa...69-Improvising
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  19. #136
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    Default Re: Want to learn Jazz mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Morse View Post
    Harder to find, but they’re out there are Homer and Jethro’s “Playing It Straight” and “It Ain’t Necessarily Square.”
    These amazing recordings were re-issued on a single CD a few years back, and Elderly Instruments has been carrying them since then.

  20. #137
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    Default Re: Want to learn Jazz mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wright View Post
    We need to distinguish jazz blues from delta and Chicago blues. Jazz blues is jazz on a 12-bar blues chord progression. “St. Louis Blues” does not share much with “Born Under a Bad Sign”. .
    Jazz blues seems to be somewhat older...like 20's:

    http://www.midnightflyerblues.com/fi...recordings.htm



    https://www.earlyblues.com/chronolog..._on_record.htm

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  22. #138
    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Want to learn Jazz mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill McCall View Post
    No, another opinion is 'don't confuse the historic origins of the music with the development path of all modern players.'
    Indeed it is.

    Another opinion is "modern players that do not include blues, "Trad" (Dixieland) and swing into their understanding of 'modern' jazz are not really playing jazz but some other form of improvised music".

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  24. #139
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Want to learn Jazz mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidKOS View Post
    Indeed it is.

    Another opinion is "modern players that do not include blues, "Trad" (Dixieland) and swing into their understanding of 'modern' jazz are not really playing jazz but some other form of improvised music".
    Are these quotation marks around a David quote? Or from someone else?

    In any event, I think this sounds like a very reasonable position to take.

    And a sentiment which I will likely quote myself!

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  26. #140
    Joe B mandopops's Avatar
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    Default Re: Want to learn Jazz mandolin

    An example of breaking the boundaries, check out Allen Toussaint’s Bright Mississippi album. I’m sure my buddy, David from New Orleans, will appreciate this. Mr Toussaint recorded this album, the title track is a Monk tune based on the chords of Sweet Georgia Brown, of early trad, Jelly Roll, & Duke tunes. Appearing on the album were Don Byron, Nicholas Payton, Joshua Redman, Brad Mehldau, & others. A wonderful recording. I heard him at play it with some of the same players at Chicago’s Symphony Ctr, on his birthday. A most enjoyable evening.
    So he have a New Orleans R&B piano man, playing “trad” Jazz/Blues, with “modern” Jazz Musicians. & it worked beautifully.
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  28. #141
    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Want to learn Jazz mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by brunello97 View Post
    Are these quotation marks around a David quote? Or from someone else?

    In any event, I think this sounds like a very reasonable position to take.

    And a sentiment which I will likely quote myself!

    Mick
    I admit to it being one of mine.

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  30. #142
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Want to learn Jazz mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidKOS View Post
    I admit to it being one of mine.
    I like it! Thanks....

    Mick
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  32. #143
    Oval holes are cool David Lewis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Want to learn Jazz mandolin

    As, I think one of the two guys who have an opinion, I am a musicologist and historian who has taught 19, 20 and 21st century vernacular music at universities. My opinion might not be worth much, but others seemed to think it has value, even if limited value.
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  34. #144
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    Default Re: Want to learn Jazz mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by mandopops View Post
    An example of breaking the boundaries, check out Allen Toussaint’s Bright Mississippi album. I’m sure my buddy, David from New Orleans, will appreciate this. Mr Toussaint recorded this album, the title track is a Monk tune based on the chords of Sweet Georgia Brown, of early trad, Jelly Roll, & Duke tunes. Appearing on the album were Don Byron, Nicholas Payton, Joshua Redman, Brad Mehldau, & others. A wonderful recording. I heard him at play it with some of the same players at Chicago’s Symphony Ctr, on his birthday. A most enjoyable evening.
    So he have a New Orleans R&B piano man, playing “trad” Jazz/Blues, with “modern” Jazz Musicians. & it worked beautifully.
    Joe B
    A truly remarkable and unique album.
    Toussaint's final album, American Tunes, was (I suppose) intended as a follow-up but didn't quite reach the same level.

  35. #145

    Default Re: Want to learn Jazz mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidKOS View Post
    And you cannot play trad unless you can play the blues and ragtime
    I just started playing Pig Ankles, Entertainer and Dill Pickle... [MAS] Thinking about a resonator or banjo mando
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