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Thread: Acoustic preamp for mandolin

  1. #1

    Default Acoustic preamp for mandolin

    Greetings, first post.

    I'm getting back to playing more mandolin and plugging in more as well. I have a great old ('86) Kentucky KM-1500 equipped with a Fishman bridge pick up. I have an LR Baggs Para DI that I use most of the time. I play mostly in church and use a Helix for my electric and acoustic guitar, well mando too for that matter. But when I go out on acoustic gigs I'd like to have a little simpler set up.

    I was wondering if some of the nice folks here would share their set ups. I've watched a lot of videos on products from Fishman, Baggs, T-Rex, etc but none seem to address mandolin in particular. I like effects like delay and reverb used tastefully and would probably use compression and a boost feature. Sometimes I run my mandolin through a Fishman Loudbox Mini when not direct to FOH.

    Thanks for your thoughts and sharing your experiences!

  2. #2

    Default Re: Acoustic preamp for mandolin

    If you are just looking for a simple preamp/DI, I can't hesitate recommending the Fire Eye Red Eye preamp. It is about the size of an MXR Phase 90 and has beautiful sound, and some simple tone and boost controls. If you need a wearable, small belt preamp, the Ehrlund preamp sounds very good. I use it with my wireless fiddle and mando. It is a little pricey, but about the best I could find in a small, lightweight box.

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  4. #3
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    Default Re: Acoustic preamp for mandolin

    +1 on the FireEye RedEye
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

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    Default Re: Acoustic preamp for mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by pops1 View Post
    +1 on the FireEye RedEye
    What he said. ♫
    David Hopkins

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  8. #5
    Quietly Making Noise Dave Greenspoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Acoustic preamp for mandolin

    The Fire Eye and others are great solutions, each with their own strength. The easy answer to your more involved criteria is the Fishman ToneDEQ. IMO, few do acoustic effects well as Fishman. You can tell from my acoustic rig photo how much I love the sounds. The amp's plate reverb, and the pedals for chorus and delay, and I am set. FWIW, I've even used my AFX pedals with electric mandolins just for giggles, and they sounded great.
    Axes: Eastman MD-515 & El Rey; Eastwood S Mandola
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  10. #6

    Default Re: Acoustic preamp for mandolin

    Thanks everyone! I'm not familiar with the Fire Eye but with all the thumbs up I need to check it out and will. I admit that something like the ToneDEQ was more what I had in mind but with the effects loop on the Red Eye there are lots of possibilities.

    Thanks again!

  11. #7
    Mandolin user MontanaMatt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Acoustic preamp for mandolin

    The Tonedexter is by far the best d.i. I’ve ever used. So much more than a just a di. But it is for making you mandolin sound more natural, not electric.
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  12. #8

    Default Re: Acoustic preamp for mandolin

    How do you like the pickup? It all starts there. If you like the pickup, you just need a nice pre to match impedance and send the uncolored sound on down the line. RedEyes do this very well. I bought one after Teddy Randazzo of Dazzo pickups fame A/Bd one for me against the Baggs Para DI. The RedEye sounds a lot better, but if you need to EQ the pickup like crazy to sound good, it might not be the one for you. But the RedEye's designer will tell you a lot of the EQ you need is due to the pre's gain stage being non linear.

    You will only know by trying one. I have since moved on to the even better sounding SunnAudio Stage 1 DI. But many can't live without the RedEye's boost switch. So my approach is to start with a pickup that doesn't need EQ and send it down the line.

    The other valid approach is the Tonedexter. Take the pickup that leaves much to be desired and teach your Tonedexter to output a microphone simulated sound. If you have a bunch of piezo equipped instruments, this could be your most cost effective way to go.
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    Default Re: Acoustic preamp for mandolin

    The RedEye will also run on phantom power.
    David Hopkins

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  15. #10
    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Acoustic preamp for mandolin

    just a red eye fan post?

    As an enhancement of the acoustic sound wave forms, with complex reverb delays,
    generated to make a dry piezo signal,
    such as an under bridge pickup , like fishman ,
    or numerous guitars with onboard preamps ,
    sound fuller and more acoustic was the goal of Y'ha's AG stomp..

    I guess you just want a preamp.. & got a power amp ,
    or just feed a line input on some house soundboard,

    No external needed, Its internal on Rolands AC60,
    But, when that's too heavy.. (transformer power supply)

    the Schertler Dyn M, plugged into the Smaller Roland Mobile AC sounds fine..












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  16. #11

    Default Re: Acoustic preamp for mandolin

    The Red Eye offers the absolute best sound, ruggedness, and ease of use of any preamp/DI around $200 I have found. No other gimmicks needed.

  17. #12

    Default Re: Acoustic preamp for mandolin

    If looking for other options:

    ToneDexter is in a class by itself, price is high.

    I like multi-pedals too, but never had a Helix, Zoom is more my speed, cheap, small, does what I need in a single pedal.

    MXR makes nice preamps, as do many others.
    Davey Stuart tenor guitar (based on his 18" mandola design).
    Eastman MD-604SB with Grover 309 tuners.
    Eastwood 4 string electric mandostang, 2x Airline e-mandola (4-string) one strung as an e-OM.
    DSP's: Helix HX Stomp, various Zooms.
    Amps: THR-10, Sony XB-20.

  18. #13
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    Default Re: Acoustic preamp for mandolin

    I use a clip/stick on microphone (Myers) instead of any piezo device and I am wondering if the Fire Eye Red Eye preamp would be as suitable as so many of you agree it is with pickups?So would it work well with a clip/stick on?

  19. #14

    Default Re: Acoustic preamp for mandolin

    The issue with mics for me is they usually need phantom power, so have to go direct to the board, I don't get the opportunity to run them through a pedal to get 'my' sound before I send it to the board.

    For the same reason, a red-eye cannot be used with a condenser mic.

    Looking at the Myers feather series of instrument mics, I see they have their own battery powered preamp, and have a 1/4" out, so they don't need phantom power and can be run through a pedal. Since they have a preamp already, you probably won't need a red-eye with it. But preamps like the red-eye are clean, and would be completely ok to use with the myers if you want some more boost to send to the board.

    That's a great find, I didn't know about them.

    Would be curious if they stack up well against the Schertler Dyn-M-P48 or the audio technica stuff which are supposed to be first rate, but require phantom power.

    I find multiple mandolin cafe threads on them:
    https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/t...ith-Sound-Clip

    The synopsis is they sound pretty good, are more sensitive to feedback just like any other mike compared to a pickup, and complaints that their website has no specs at all.

    For me the downside is the belt pack and the feedback. I am getting by with my pickup and a pedal to EQ back in the highs the pickup loses. A cardiod clip-on would definitely be easier for me than an omni, I could aim it away from the floor monitor.
    Davey Stuart tenor guitar (based on his 18" mandola design).
    Eastman MD-604SB with Grover 309 tuners.
    Eastwood 4 string electric mandostang, 2x Airline e-mandola (4-string) one strung as an e-OM.
    DSP's: Helix HX Stomp, various Zooms.
    Amps: THR-10, Sony XB-20.

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  21. #15
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    Default Re: Acoustic preamp for mandolin

    The RedEye fireye is more of an impedance match for a piezo and not designed for a mic. A condenser mic shouldn't need a preamp.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

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  23. #16

    Default Re: Acoustic preamp for mandolin

    There is an effects loop for pedals

  24. #17
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    Default Re: Acoustic preamp for mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Griffin View Post
    There is an effects loop for pedals
    Yes you are correct, most preamps for pickkups have an effects loop and you can add what ever you like to change the sound and keep the impedance match.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

  25. #18

    Default Re: Acoustic preamp for mandolin

    You may not be aware, but the FireEye was originally designed for fiddle players, so mandolins should be very dialed in.
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  26. #19
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    Default Re: Acoustic preamp for mandolin

    I just reset up a friends preamp as he had it so the mandolin went into a pedal before the pre and the match was not there. Came out of the effects and put his reverb, tuner, and fat boost in the effects. Much better, and effects does the same thing to the 1/4" out and the XLR.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

  27. #20
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    Default Re: Acoustic preamp for mandolin

    All this Fireeye info. Whatever happened to the old tried and true LR Baggs DI box? Am I doing something wrong?
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  28. #21

    Default Re: Acoustic preamp for mandolin

    I have used both Baggs Gigpro and Para Di, and while they are high quality units, I found the frequency response was less than flat. The Baggs added kind of a bloated mid-bass, and a tinny high end I did not like on fiddle. Maybe it works better for guitars. The Red Eye is very flat across the board, and doesn't add those unpleasant frequencies. Neither does the Ehrlund. There is no way for me to use a microphone or contact mic in most of my band situations, and they end up inadvertently picking things like drums, guitars, etc. and contributing to feedback. A bridge pickup is much more immune to that even on a mandolin.

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  30. #22
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    Default Re: Acoustic preamp for mandolin

    I have had the Para,Orchid, K&K and FireEye. I use the FireEye, best sound and so easy to use. The Orchid was my second favorite, but has to have 48volt phantom power. The FireEye has a battery and can use any phantom over 9 volts.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

  31. #23

    Default Re: Acoustic preamp for mandolin

    Yep, that is one reason I keep with the Red Eye is the versatility. There are times when I play so many gigs I don't want to have to worry about changing a battery, and others when no phantom is available.

  32. #24

    Default Re: Acoustic preamp for mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by pops1 View Post
    The RedEye fireye is more of an impedance match for a piezo and not designed for a mic. A condenser mic shouldn't need a preamp.
    Yes, you are right, I checked into this since I suspected my pickup has an impedance mismatch too.

    I use a schertler resocoil, which has a 1/4" jack, but is TRS, and ideal input impedance is around 4k (it's impedance is about 400 ohms), so it's designed to work with the standard 10k ohm input of a board.

    I've been using it with a 1 megohm pedal, and notice substantial high-frequency loss, which I thought was just the way the pickup was until now.

    I contacted Schertler, who responded on thanksgiving day, I guess it isn't a holiday in Switzerland, and confirmed that yes, the impedance mismatch in my case is causing the rolloff in highs. They suggested a preamp, but I am going to try this, its a reverse DI box. I want to use the effects in a guitar pedal (reverb, delay compressor, EQ), and if you don't need phantom power this little box is designed to impedance match a mic to an instrument level input:

    https://www.gear4music.com/us/en/PA-...se-DI-Box/2GGF

    Currently I am EQing the highs back in, but that adds a little hiss, and is less than ideal anyway.

    I am beginning to understand why Eastman switched from the resocoil to the K&K. The K&K is a piezo and works fine with pedals and DI box. The resocoil is the opposite. Looking forward to hearing the resocoil in its full glory, being an actual mic, it should provide pretty high sound quality, but we'll see. :-)

    I'll have it in about 2 weeks to try out. Thanks for pointing that out. :-)
    Last edited by kurth83; Nov-23-2018 at 9:18pm.
    Davey Stuart tenor guitar (based on his 18" mandola design).
    Eastman MD-604SB with Grover 309 tuners.
    Eastwood 4 string electric mandostang, 2x Airline e-mandola (4-string) one strung as an e-OM.
    DSP's: Helix HX Stomp, various Zooms.
    Amps: THR-10, Sony XB-20.

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  34. #25
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    Default Re: Acoustic preamp for mandolin

    If you have a resocoil why not just plug it into the board?
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

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