Ebay story

[Mark Gunter]

OK, so I've been using ebay on occasion for a long, long time. Currently I'm selling a few items there, and I've experienced a first.

I was contacted by a guy who gave me a convoluted story about how awful PayPal is and how he can't use that as a payment method (I accept PayPal only, for eBay stuff). He asked if he might be allowed to pay via money order if indeed he should win an auction on one of my items.

Nothing about this guy raised my "scam" radar - only the request itself was odd. He'd been bidding on my item since it was first listed. I thought long and hard about his request. I decided to give him a chance. I told him I would accept a personal check or money order accompanied by photocopy of front and back of his Driver License. Further, the item would not be shipped until the funds were secured by my bank. To these terms he agreed.

Then, today, about two hours before my item is to end, I receive a message stating that alarms bells had gone off for him, because of my "un-trusting" requirement regarding his ID. He says he's uncomfortable about sending his ID info to someone so close to the Mexico border.

So I have informed him that I prefer he drop out of the bidding. I have no interest in this guy's (or anyone else's) personal identification. My only goal was to protect myself in the event I were to receive a bad money order, in which case I would share that information with the authorities.

Now, here's the thing. I don't blame the guy for not wanting to share personal info with someone he doesn't know on the internet. But, I think it takes an idiot to think I would not be suspicious of a man who contacts me requesting special payment considerations. In all the years I've been on Ebay, he's the first to do this.

I'm selling freaking musical instruments. What, I'm supposed to be trying to steal a guys identity by offering musical instruments for sale?

Signed,
Agitated in Abilene

[Mark Gunter]

Also - I meant to state in the OP - I do fully understand that a scammer could provide fake ID. So my attempt to have some small measure of security could have been contravened anyway. I've thought a lot about that. Once you decide to give someone a chance, there will always be risk involved.

[Roger Moss]

I have had attempts to scam me in a similar way before. It was the old one where they send you a cashier's check an you're supposed to send them back the excess. I know, old one. But apparently the bank takes the check on faith and gives you the money. You send the scammers the extra part, then when the bank tries to redeem the check they find out it's fake. They want the money back, and your not having it puts you in hot water. So just cashing a check or money order doesn't mean the story's over. (BTW, the check came the next day by Fed Ex from an attourney's return address in Marylsnd. I forwarded it in the sealed envelope to the local FBI).

[HonketyHank]

I am not 100% sure, but I believe what your noPaypal bidder was asking was for you to bypass all ebay (and PayPal) protections. It is possible to avoid using Paypal for an eBay transaction but it is not easy to do. And I think even if you can get it figured out, it involves use of an approved credit card -- not cash or money order. So he may well be asking you to violate eBay's TOS, too.

Me? Paypal only. I don't trust your noPaypal bidder.

[foldedpath]

I'm with Hank above -- I'd have to check, but I think it's a violation of Ebay's TOS to attempt an end-run with a different payment method other than Paypal or a link to a merchant credit card account if you have one. I could be wrong about that, it's been a while since I've checked... but Ebay has to know when payment arrives to trigger your alert to ship, and automatically take their cut. They can't do that with outside payment.

In the future, all you have to do is tell the person you have to abide by the TOS and can't do this. There may be penalties for the seller as well as the buyer, so be careful about this kind of thing.

Also, make sure you've set up whatever other buyer restrictions you'd want on your seller menu. I have mine set to block bidders with 2 Unpaid Item strikes within 12 months, or a shipping address in my blocked shipping list.

[Mark Gunter]

An update - and apology for airing my frustration in OP - what I did was to use Ebay's "buyer block" to block that buyer from bidding on any of my items. At that point, there was an hour left in the auction with twenty-some-odd watchers, and he was soon outbid.

I agree with all that you guys have posted ...

So far as alternative payment methods, the last time I set payment preferences in Ebay I set it for "PayPal Only". At that time, a seller could allow several options including personal checks and money orders. That may have changed by now, because it has probably been over a decade since my last settings were made there!

At any rate, I'm glad to be done with that guy.

[Pittsburgh Bill]

I had a similar ruse tried on me two years ago (though not on ebay) when we were down sizing and I was liquidating my 3 race cars and racing paraphernalia. I suspected a possible scam and took precautions. The scammers were coming out of the woodwork and I changed my terms to all sales would only be made in person. These were terms I didn't see as unreasonable as these were big ticket items exceeding some people's retirement accounts. And did the scammers stop? NO, They persisted with every excuse you could imagine for not being able to make the purchase in person.
YOU CAN'T BE TOO CAREFUL AND I THINK YOU DID THE RIGHT THING.

[Timbofood]

You know, I use PayPal a lot, I have no qualms with the system, I also sometimes prefer to NOT use it for whatever reason, sometimes a personal check works, sometimes a postal money order is better.
Mark, I would not be comfortable with giving you all the information you may have requested necessarily either, I would however, as the buyer, have been bright enough to simply ask of a money order was acceptable. I kind of see faults on both sides of this coin.
Carry on.

[Mark Gunter]

Mark, I would not be comfortable with giving you all the information you may have requested necessarily either ...

I do understand that, and I did see his point. It's not like I haven't been there myself. A couple years ago I was on a project for which I needed to order product from a long distance vendor by phone/email, this was a large company, and they required such photocopies from me. I was plenty uncomfortable about it, but I complied because I needed to make that purchase to get my job done.

That's to say that I can understand this guy's concern, but those were my terms and he agreed. Even those terms did not make me entirely comfortable with him. So when he contacts me at the 11th hour balking on his willingness to provide the information, it's gone too far for me to be comfortable dealing with him.

Maybe unfortunate, but he has somehow ruined or lost his ability to work through PayPal. I still believe that is the case, rather than this one being a scammer, but I don't believe it strongly enough to do business with him now.

[Steve Ostrander]

If I were to accept a personal check or MO for any sale I would hold the merchandise until the check cleared. If that isn’t acceptable to the buyer, then I wouldn’t do business with them.

[LadysSolo]

I don't think you were wrong. I initially (some years ago) was hesitant to use PayPal because I didn't want my credit card info out there (I've had my identity stolen 3 times) but after using PayPal I've had no problems with it. So I can understand someone not wanting to use PayPal, but it is ultimately for everyone's protection to use it, and you were totally within your rights.

[Folkmusician.com]

I still have this basic situation come a few times a year. People that legitimately want to pay by mail. I won't accept anything that needs to be deposited. Money orders and Western Union are fine. For Money Orders, it has to be something I can cash at a local location. Postal Money Orders for instance.

I have asked for copies of Identification and received some pretty good photoshopped fakes. I still got caught it, but someone with more skill could easily make a convincing fake copy. I wouldn't rely on this.

[jpinmissouri]

This is my first post here, so I apologize for this being my introduction, but the whole PayPal thing is something I have a lot of experience with.

I own a mail order business and we get paid with PayPal each week an average of 240 times by customers. I can tell you that there is no safer place for your credit card or bank information. I’ve had someone tell me in the past that the DoD wishes that it had internet security of the quality that PayPal has.

But there are a lot of loopholes and pitfalls for sellers using PayPal. We’ve had merchandise stolen from us by customers using PayPal to make payment on several occasions.

First off, you have to have written proof that anything sold to anyone who pays with PayPal that they received in their hands what they bought. Written proof is not a delivery confirmation email from the post office, UPS, or FedEx. It is a verifiable signature, on paper, from the recipient.

Second, the customer has 90 days to damage whatever you sold them and send it back for a refund. And PayPal does not require the same proof that I mentioned above that they did send it back. And it doesn’t matter if you have detailed photos of whatever it is that you sold to show PayPal. That is not proof that it was not damaged when you shipped it to the customer.

I will note here that taking payment with a major credit card is about the same with regard to damaged or non-functioning merchandise. So that is not a better option in this case.

We ship a lot of product that has serial numbers on the outside of the unit. I’ve had people who owned a broken product of the same type swap out the casework with a new unit that we shipped to them and then claim that they got a broken one. PayPal will side with them every time.

I could go on giving examples, with some of the schemes that people come up with being very clever. I have a friend who was selling baseball cards on eBay. He finally stopped because he got a fast one pulled on him almost every time.

The safest way to get paid is with a postal money order. You can take it to your local post office and have it scanned to determine authenticity. Larger post offices can also cash fairly large money orders.

Since we do some much business, and have to, with PayPal, I thought my perspective may be useful. Not everyone who is buying whatever on the internet is a crook. We’ve gotten taken about once or twice a year, but it gets your attention when the item costs several thousand dollars.

Best regards.

[indexless]

I got a really wild one, I'm in Monterey Ca about 2 1/2 hours south of the Bay Area, so I look on CL all the time. I saw some great deals on vintageConn pre-amp (12au7) tubes so I responded. I get a call from a phone in Ohio, he tells me that he's out east in the snow visiting people but he brought a big selection of the tubes with him...ok...I ask him if I can paypal him and he doesn't take it, he wants 35 dollars in Forever stamps and if I send him 35 dollars in Forever stamps, he'll send me 4 tubes instead of the agreed on 3 for 30 bucks.....any thoughts on this one, it's a great deal for these things and I have an old 5E3 that just eats them

[Northwest Steve]

I do use paypal for both selling and buying. Seems a necessary evil of doing business on the internet. Sellers are really at a disadvantage as paypal will side with the buyer 99% pf the time. You do have an option of paying with a credit card at check out now on ebay. I do know a few people that do not have paypal and probably will never. I have had to do transactions a few times for them. Not sure if the bidder knows that? I will accept only USPS money orders as they seem to be the safest. I think the request for his drivers license was unreasonable, I would never send some one my personal ID.

[Br1ck]

I once had a deal to swap a parts telecaster for a cheap pedal steel. We are talking $500 value here. He wanted to send me the pedal steel legs, then I'd send him the neck, then he'd send me the pickup, then I'd send him the pickup assembly, then he'd send me the steel body, then I'd send the Tele body to complete the deal.

I told him I didn't want to cause him that much anxiety, so I'll pass.

[Mark Seale]

Then, today, about two hours before my item is to end, I receive a message stating that alarms bells had gone off for him, because of my "un-trusting" requirement regarding his ID. He says he's uncomfortable about sending his ID info to someone so close to the Mexico border.


Signed,
Agitated in Abilene

You should send them a map of Texas to show how far Abilene is from the border...