Gibson F4

[MartinMandolin]

Hello folks ,
I have what I purchased as a Gibson F4 Black face mandolin serial # 595215
Can’t find any other identifying marks , any ideas on how old it might be ?
No truss rod , sweet sounding .
Thanks in advance.......

[Bob A]

Serial number is an order of magnitude too high. Five digits are the max for 1920s and earlier, certainly for pre-trussrod era.

[MartinMandolin]

Thanks Bob ,
The number is pretty faded , but I’m pretty sure it’s 6 digits

[Ray(T)]

Looks mid teens to me. Have a look inside - up towards the neck block - for an ink stamped Factory Order Number and report back.

[jimmy powells]

Tuners are not inlaid and no truss rod so I reckon mid 1918-1921.

[rcc56]

Interesting. Assuming the parts and the finish are all original to the mandolin, this may be the latest black top F-4 that I remember seeing.

Any black top F-4 made after 1915 or 16 can be considered highly unusual. And the tuners and pickguard were made in 1918 or later, and the bridge was not made before 1921.

[MarkELynch]

As Ray T suggested, reading the Factory Order Number stamped inside on the neck block will tell us the year your F4 was made. You’ll need a flashlight. Look through the sound hole at a sharp angle back towards the neck. Here is an example from a 1913 Blackface A model.

Let us know what you find.

Mark

[MartinMandolin]

As far as I can make out , the finish is original, I can’t see a factory order number ,if it’s there it’s very faded . I’m rethinking the serial number after getting a couple more eyes �� on it . I now think it’s either 59225 or 29225 .
The back is two piece maple by the look of it.

[Ray(T)]

It would be unusual for there to be no FON. This number would have been allocated at the very beginning of the build process and used for stock control purposes, in other words, it’s not something that somebody can simply forget to put on. They tend to be more physically durable than a serial number written in pencil!

[MarkELynch]

It is unusual that the instrument would not have received a factory number but not unheard of. Sometimes they are very faded, you might try looking again, perhaps with a borescope or brighter light. I do have an A3 in my sizeable Gibson collection that I have never found the FON, all the others have one with the exception of the Ukuleles and Ukulele Banjos.

On the serial numbers, according to Joe Spann’s excellent research as published in his book, “Spann’s Guide to Gibson”. Spann notes that the serial number indicates the shipping date not the date of production. However most from this time period were shipped pretty soon after production with some exceptions.

29225 = 1915
59225 = 1920

Either are possible but in both cases the black finish was a custom option, red mahogany was the standard finish.

Based on the pickguard I would guess 1920 is more likely but the guard could have been changed of course. Instruments from 1915 and 1920 would have shipped with a non-adjustable bridge. Since yours now has an adjustable bridge that was obviously changed and can’t help us with the date.

Have another look for the FON, that is the only sure way to date your F4.

Mark

[MartinMandolin]

Ok , thanks,
I’ve had another good look inside , can’t see a FON . Can see the serial number better now , pretty sure it’s 59225.

[MartinMandolin]

A BIG thank you to everyone for the input and help

[slimt]

The fon number could be very faint. The right lighting should show it on the neck block. My 10' F4 is like that.

[f5loar]

To see the FON in an F4 that would be up on the neck block, I take out the pin, get a small pen flashlight to shine up in that hole from the outside in while in a dark closet. Look up through the hole towards the neck and you should see that FON.

[MartinMandolin]

Thanks, I’ll give that a try

[Ray(T)]

Next question - “How do I get this pin out? It’s either stuck or somebody has glued it!”

[pops1]

If it is tight leave it in and use a dental mirror thru the sound hole.