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Thread: K&K pickup distortion

  1. #1
    Lord of All Badgers Lord of the Badgers's Avatar
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    Default K&K pickup distortion

    Hi all
    What can lead to a k&k pickup distorting badly? It is fine for a while but it let me down big time last night when it started cutting out with a horrible sharp distortion.
    I've had loose k&k pads on an instrument before which was a different kind of distortion sound, but that was fixed. I know it's not that.
    It's weird that it's not all the time... But it's unusable at the moment.

    We did "process of elimination". Levels. Leads. Different instrument. Straight to desk not via amp. All led us to conclude it's these pickups in one instrument. My dola.
    Cheers
    My name is Rob, and I am Lord of All Badgers

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    Registered User Tavy's Avatar
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    Default Re: K&K pickup distortion

    In which case, I would bank it being either:

    * Leads are loose inside and moving around - should be easy to check.
    * Endpin jack is shot - mine lasted about 4 years on my main mando - which gets a fair bit of plugged in use (once or twice a week).

    HTH, John.

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    Default Re: K&K pickup distortion

    If the leads touch the top it can give a terrible rattling/buzzing sound. You can loosen the end pin and twist it to tighten the wires and put it back on, if that is what the problem is. If they are close/too loose, they could vibrate against the top, but not do it all the time.
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    Lord of All Badgers Lord of the Badgers's Avatar
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    Default Re: K&K pickup distortion

    Hi both I should say I've barely plugged it in until recently.
    It's very much a kind of electronic distortion - doesn't sound very analogue
    My name is Rob, and I am Lord of All Badgers

    Tenor Guitars: Acoustic: Mcilroy ASP10T, ‘59 Martin 0-18t. Electric: ‘57 Gibson ETG-150, ‘80s Manson Kestrel
    Mandolins: Davidson f5, A5 "Badgerlin".
    Bouzouki: Paul Shippey Axe
    My band's website

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    Default Re: K&K pickup distortion

    If you’ve barely plugged it in, it could be down to corrosion on the socket. I had an AER amp which I hardly used which turned on but no sound came out when I plugged something into it. I was on the point of shipping it back for repair when the manufacturer suggested cleaning the input jack. A few deft plug-in/un-plug manoeuvres with a squirt of switch cleaner solved the problem and it’s been fine ever since. I think you can even buy plugs specifically designed to clean sockets.

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    Lord of All Badgers Lord of the Badgers's Avatar
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    Default Re: K&K pickup distortion

    Hi Ray - as per my opening post we did a process of elimination. The mandolin with k&k is fine but not the dola. Tried both AER sockets too. And we went in via desk direct.
    My name is Rob, and I am Lord of All Badgers

    Tenor Guitars: Acoustic: Mcilroy ASP10T, ‘59 Martin 0-18t. Electric: ‘57 Gibson ETG-150, ‘80s Manson Kestrel
    Mandolins: Davidson f5, A5 "Badgerlin".
    Bouzouki: Paul Shippey Axe
    My band's website

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    Lord of All Badgers Lord of the Badgers's Avatar
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    Default Re: K&K pickup distortion

    Phil D did test it all through but I found that the problem is erratic so far.
    Not all was lost last night. It was a listening audience not a pub so I had a rare chance as backup to use the DPA.... So good but not always feasible with my loud band.
    My name is Rob, and I am Lord of All Badgers

    Tenor Guitars: Acoustic: Mcilroy ASP10T, ‘59 Martin 0-18t. Electric: ‘57 Gibson ETG-150, ‘80s Manson Kestrel
    Mandolins: Davidson f5, A5 "Badgerlin".
    Bouzouki: Paul Shippey Axe
    My band's website

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    Default Re: K&K pickup distortion

    The buzzing sound I was referring to comes thru the amp, it is not acoustic. Are your pickups glued in or taped in? A loose pickup or a pickup not glued securely could also cause noise. Cold solder, I would check the connections on the jack. You have maybe done all this, just thinking out loud so to speak.
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  9. #9
    mandolin slinger Steve Ostrander's Avatar
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    Default Re: K&K pickup distortion

    Assuming there is no 9-volt battery in the signal chain? No pre-amp or tuner?
    Living’ in the Mitten

  10. #10

    Default Re: K&K pickup distortion

    I've had the pickups inside come loose and that can cause bad sound and distortion.

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    Default Re: K&K pickup distortion

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of the Badgers View Post
    Hi Ray - as per my opening post we did a process of elimination. The mandolin with k&k is fine but not the dola. Tried both AER sockets too. And we went in via desk direct.
    I meant the socket on the ‘dola not the amp - I only used the amp as an example.

    Thinking about it, it wasn’t actually the amp’s input socket which had the corrosion, it was the headphone socket which I’ve hardly, if ever, used. On the AER, the link between the pre and power amp is switched by the headphone socket (so that sound is cut from the speaker when you plug a pair of ‘phones in). Corrosion on the socket/switch meant it didn’t make contact so no sound output.

    Corrosion on any sort of socket can either result in no sound or a degraded sound. After the AER indident, if I was getting distorted sound from a socket I hardly ever use I’d check the socket.

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    Lord of All Badgers Lord of the Badgers's Avatar
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    Default Re: K&K pickup distortion

    I'm assured by Phil that the pads are attached properly. I saw him check with his mirror.
    As I said I tested both instruments and cable combos via the AER (both inputs) and also straight to the desk. Both have their own preamp. Same result. Definitely the dola's pickup config.
    In fact the mandolin if anything is a louder instrument than the dola pickup wise.

    Could it not just be a faulty pickup?
    My name is Rob, and I am Lord of All Badgers

    Tenor Guitars: Acoustic: Mcilroy ASP10T, ‘59 Martin 0-18t. Electric: ‘57 Gibson ETG-150, ‘80s Manson Kestrel
    Mandolins: Davidson f5, A5 "Badgerlin".
    Bouzouki: Paul Shippey Axe
    My band's website

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    Registered User Cheryl Watson's Avatar
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    Default Re: K&K pickup distortion

    I had a K&K pickup installed in a guitar and it was faulty. No matter what I did, it sounded brittle, honky and somewhat distorted. I have a Fishman system in my guitar now--undersaddle Matrix and mic combo--GREAT sound. I have a K&K in one of my mandolins and it sounds clean and very natural through my Fireeye Redeye preamp into my board, or directly plugged into my acoustic amp. That has been my experience anyway.

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    Mandol'Aisne Daniel Nestlerode's Avatar
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    Default Re: K&K pickup distortion

    Are you really sure it's not the battery?
    Preamp batteries last a long time, but they do go dead. When they do you get a weak signal that distorts brilliantly.

    best,
    Daniel

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    Lord of All Badgers Lord of the Badgers's Avatar
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    Default Re: K&K pickup distortion

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Nestlerode View Post
    Are you really sure it's not the battery?
    Preamp batteries last a long time, but they do go dead. When they do you get a weak signal that distorts brilliantly.

    best,
    Daniel
    Straight into my AER. Behaves fine then starts distort after a while.
    As I said - other mandolin fine via exact same chain and tests . Same k&k pickups.

    Folks I did everything to isolate this... We thought it might be the amp so tried the desk - same issue. Mandolin fine mandola bad.

    Fault definitely somehow with pickup or installation methinks. Just wondered if anyone else had had this
    My name is Rob, and I am Lord of All Badgers

    Tenor Guitars: Acoustic: Mcilroy ASP10T, ‘59 Martin 0-18t. Electric: ‘57 Gibson ETG-150, ‘80s Manson Kestrel
    Mandolins: Davidson f5, A5 "Badgerlin".
    Bouzouki: Paul Shippey Axe
    My band's website

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    Celtic Bard michaelpthompson's Avatar
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    Default Re: K&K pickup distortion

    Some people have suggested a battery problem. The K&Ks I use and swear by have no preamp, and thus no battery. Does yours have a battery? Cuz starting out well and then degrading is definitely associated with a weak battery.

  17. #17
    Lord of All Badgers Lord of the Badgers's Avatar
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    Default Re: K&K pickup distortion

    It's a passive system
    My name is Rob, and I am Lord of All Badgers

    Tenor Guitars: Acoustic: Mcilroy ASP10T, ‘59 Martin 0-18t. Electric: ‘57 Gibson ETG-150, ‘80s Manson Kestrel
    Mandolins: Davidson f5, A5 "Badgerlin".
    Bouzouki: Paul Shippey Axe
    My band's website

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    Default Re: K&K pickup distortion

    If the pickups are bad K&K should replace them. If there is a air pocket between the pickup and the top where the glue didn't cover that can also cause problems. I don't understand how it can start good and digress to bad. A miss glue would sound bad all the time, so it may be the pickup, or the jack. Is the solder connection good and the solder flowed nicely. That is something that would sound good and then change. Or oxidation on the inside of the jack. Plugging in would clean it slightly, but after the signal would degrade. Plug the cord in and out of the jack multiple times.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

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    Default Re: K&K pickup distortion

    I'd check to make sure that the polarity of the piezo connections is correct

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    Default Re: K&K pickup distortion

    Quote Originally Posted by colorado_al View Post
    I'd check to make sure that the polarity of the piezo connections is correct
    I don't think there is a polarity on piezo's.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

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    Default Re: K&K pickup distortion

    Quote Originally Posted by pops1 View Post
    I don't think there is a polarity on piezo's.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    https://support.piezo.com/article/127-wiring-guidelines

    If one is wired reverse to the other you may get undesirable effects

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    Default Re: K&K pickup distortion

    What you are showing is a completely different use of a transducer. The ones in your mandolin are not sealed, you can see the brass of the disc. I have installed dozens of K&K and in no installation information do they talk about polarity of their transducers. I have never tried to check for polarity nor had a problem with installations. I get them in bulk and they are not soldered to the jack, nor are the wires different color as would be with a + and - wires.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

  23. #23
    Lord of All Badgers Lord of the Badgers's Avatar
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    Default Re: K&K pickup distortion

    Hi all.
    Jack at k&k has been in touch. I got a recording to him.
    He is convinced the pads may not be in full contact specifically in the center.
    Here's the sound they make - hope you can access. Firstly the affected dola then mandolin which is unaffected.
    Didn't mean to leave reverb on. It gets turned off in the recording.
    metal mandola recording \m/
    My name is Rob, and I am Lord of All Badgers

    Tenor Guitars: Acoustic: Mcilroy ASP10T, ‘59 Martin 0-18t. Electric: ‘57 Gibson ETG-150, ‘80s Manson Kestrel
    Mandolins: Davidson f5, A5 "Badgerlin".
    Bouzouki: Paul Shippey Axe
    My band's website

  24. #24
    Lord of All Badgers Lord of the Badgers's Avatar
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    Default Re: K&K pickup distortion

    Jack's words;
    "Sounds as if the pickups are not in full contact with the top, probably in the center there is not contact."

    "The recommended film adhesive ("tape") can sometimes come loose if the wood is not smooth enough or for some other possible reasons and this allows the pickup to not be in total contact with the surface resulting in a mechanical "rattle" that sounds like the distortion you are experiencing"

    It's frustrating as Phil looked with his dentist mirror and proclaimed the pads to be affixed properly.
    My name is Rob, and I am Lord of All Badgers

    Tenor Guitars: Acoustic: Mcilroy ASP10T, ‘59 Martin 0-18t. Electric: ‘57 Gibson ETG-150, ‘80s Manson Kestrel
    Mandolins: Davidson f5, A5 "Badgerlin".
    Bouzouki: Paul Shippey Axe
    My band's website

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    Default Re: K&K pickup distortion

    It's not something you can see by looking, there can be a spot in the middle surrounded by glue and looks to be flat against the top, but an air space will cause problems, as Jack says. I would take them out and reinstall. You don't have much to lose as they aren't working anyway. Just be careful and don't break them, and test before you put them back in.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

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