Mandolins on airplanes

[Ranald]

Ah, but Ranald, you are spreading tall tales! Your story, regardless of whether it happens to be true, or has been somewhat exaggerated, is not the norm for air travel with a violin. And it never was the norm. Learn to read more closely, please: I did not at any point call you, nor your friend, a liar. I wrote that the story you related was "exceptional" and "not representative." I said that your telling of this story was "second-hand" and "unverified." I stand by all those things.

I did not suggest that this story was typical or that anyone shouldn't fly with a mandolin. It was simply a humorous response to post #18. My experiences flying with instruments have been positive, and I generally find that flight attendants try to be helpful, and security guards too, though less so. My friend is a professional musician, who, like you, flies regularly, and is more likely to run into those weird things that sometimes happen. As Chuck says in Post #25, "It’s all good...until it isn’t...Usually it’s fine, but be prepared in case it’s not..."
To everyone reading this: I'm not suggesting that you don't take your mandolin on a plane.
To sblock: We've both had our say, so unless you want the last word, let's drop this discussion for the sake of everyone else. In truth, I don't think we disagree about flying with instruments.
Ranald

[kurth83]

I'm going to travel with a mando this xmas for the first time, this thread has been helpful, so far I got:
- small light hard case
- carry on
- loosen (and maybe remove) strings.
- avoid suspicious case candy, strings in particular.

[sblock]

Yes to the hard case (I would go with Hoffee, Calton, or Pegasus myself, but there are other fine choices)
Yes to carry-on!
Yes to lightly loosening the strings (not removing them; in fact, leave enough tension for the bridge not to budge)

... but no to the part about leaving your strings behind. I always carry an extra set or two in my hard case, plus a small pair of wire-cutters, too! No one in TSA, at the X-ray, has ever said a word against them. And no gate agent or cabin person/stewardess is even going to know if they're there inside a closed case. Even in the worst case-scenario, TSA would just refuse to let the strings through, and you would continue to board with your instrument and its case, after dumping them. But that's not ever happened to me in dozens of flights. In terms of risk/benefit, it pays to bring strings along.

[Louise NM]

If you are carrying an instrument on, you're probably checking luggage. Just slip any extra strings into your regular luggage, and you will be fine. Our family has found that airline and TSA personnel are usually quite respectful of instruments. Usually is the key word. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst, and you'll do fine.

[EvanElk]

..

[Steve Sorensen]

Oh, for the love of Pete! HERE ARE THE FAA RULES as of 2015 --

DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
Office of the Secretary
14 CFR Part 251
[Docket No. DOT–OST–2014–0231]
RIN 2105–AE37
Carriage of Musical Instruments
Final rule.
SUMMARY
:
The Department of
Transportation is issuing a final rule to
implement section 403 of the FAA
Modernization and Reform Act of 2012
regarding the carriage of musical
instruments as carry-on baggage or
checked baggage on commercial
passenger flights operated by air
carriers. This rule responds to
difficulties musicians have encountered
when transporting their instruments
during air travel.
DATES
:
Effective Date:
This rule is
effective March 6, 2015.

Provisions of the Final Rule
Covered Entities and Flights --

Section 403 of the Act covers ‘‘[a]n air
carrier providing air transportation.’’
According to the definition in 49 U.S.C.
40102(a)(2), ‘‘air carrier’’ means a
citizen of the United States undertaking
by any means, directly or indirectly, to
provide air transportation. 49 U.S.C.
40102(a)(5) provides that ‘‘air
transportation’’ includes foreign air
transportation or interstate air
transportation. Those terms in turn are
defined in 49 U.S.C. 40102(a) to mean
the transportation of passengers or
property by aircraft as a common carrier
for compensation. Thus, this final rule
implementing Section 403 covers all
U.S. certificated and commuter carriers,
as well as air taxis operating under
exemption authority, that provide air
transportation to the public directly,
regardless of the size of the aircraft they
operate, and all indirect carriers such as
public charter operators. It covers the
scheduled and charter flights operated
by these carriers in domestic or
international air transportation. This
final rule covers public charter
operators only to the extent the public
charter operator at issue handles
checked and carry-on baggage
acceptance for the flight. In this
situation, if the carriage of a musical
instrument is consistent with the
Federal Aviation Administration (FAA)-
approved carry-on baggage or checked
baggage program of the direct air carrier
operating a public charter flight and
there is room for the instrument at the
time the passenger in question attempts
to board, the public charter operator
must accept the instrument as carry-on
or checked baggage as appropriate.
Transport of Small Instruments as
Carry-On Baggage
This rule requires that carriers must
allow a passenger to carry into the cabin
and stow a small musical instrument,
such a violin or a guitar, in a suitable
baggage compartment, such as the
overhead bin or under the seats in
accordance with FAA safety regulations.
The FAA regulations require each
carrier holding a Part 121 or Part 135
operating certificate to ensure that carry-
on baggage is carried on board in
accordance with an FAA-approved
carry-on baggage program. See 14 CFR
121.285, 121.589, and 135.87. Further,
in Advisory Circular (AC) 121–29B,
FAA provides 11 categories of
information that a carrier’s carry-on
baggage program must address,
including a description of procedures a
carrier will follow for stowage of
‘‘unusual or fragile items’’ (See AC 121–
29B Section 4(e)(3)). Although not
specifically referring to musical
instruments, we believe this section is
applicable to the transport of musical
instruments as they tend to fall into the
category of ‘‘unusual or fragile items’’
due to their size, shape, and nature.
Section 4(e)(3) provides that if the crew
cannot check or stow an unusual or
fragile item in a manner that ensures the
safety of the aircraft and its occupants,
the passenger will have to ship that item
by some other means. In complying
with this final rule and accepting a
passenger’s musical instrument as carry-
on baggage for stowage in an approved
compartment or other specifically
approved area in the cabin (e.g.,
the overhead bin or under seats), we expect
carriers to continue to follow their FAA-
approved carry-on baggage programs to
ensure the safety of the flight and the
passengers and crew onboard. In
addition, carriers should adequately
inform passengers and the public about
the limitations and restrictions imposed
by these programs.
Section 403 of the Act and this final
rule provide that carriers are required to
allow passengers to stow their musical
instruments in an approved stowage
area in the cabin only if at the time the
passenger boards the aircraft such
stowage space is available. With the
exception of certain disability assistance
devices, overhead bins or under seat
stowage space is available to all
passengers and crew members for their
carry-on baggage on a ‘‘first come, first
served’’ basis. Accordingly, carriers are
not required to remove other passengers’
or crew members’ carry-on baggage that
is already stowed in order to make space
for a musical instrument. However, this
also means carriers are not allowed to
require a passenger to remove his or her
musical instrument that is already safely
stowed (e.g., in the overhead bin) to
make room for carry-on baggage of other
passengers who boarded the aircraft
later than the passenger with the
musical instrument. This is true even if
the space taken by the musical
instrument could accommodate one or
more other carry-on items. Because the
rule does not require that musical
instruments be given priority over other
carry-on baggage, we encourage
passengers traveling with musical
instruments to take steps to board before
as many other passengers as possible to
ensure that space will be available for
them to safely stow their instruments in
the cabin. This includes utilizing pre-
boarding opportunities that some
carriers offer (usually for a fee).
This rule also states that carriers are
prohibited from charging passengers
with a musical instrument as carry-on
baggage an additional fee other than any
standard fee carriers impose for carry-on
baggage. By including such a
requirement in the statute, Congress
clearly meant to require carriers to treat
musical instruments in the cabin as no
different from other carry-on baggage.
For example, many carriers’ FAA-
approved carry-on baggage programs
permit one piece of carry-on baggage
plus one personal item such as a purse
or a briefcase. If the passenger with the
musical instrument already has these
two standard items and the musical
instrument is the third carry-on item,
that carrier may not permit the
passenger to board the aircraft with a
third carry-on item. As per Federal
Aviation Regulations, no air carrier may
allow a passenger to board the aircraft
with more carry-on items than allowed
in that carrier’s FAA-approved carry-on
baggage program. Any fees imposed by
a carrier for any piece of carry-on
baggage is also applicable to a musical
instrument carried onboard. This would
include a situation where a carrier’s
FAA-approved carry-on baggage
program allows each passenger two
pieces of carry-on baggage but the
airline charges a fee for a second piece.
If a passenger with a musical instrument
already has one piece of (free) carry-on
baggage, the airline is permitted to
charge its standard fee for a second
piece of carry-on baggage even if the
second piece is a musical instrument.
Transporting Large Instruments as
Carry-On Baggage

[EvanElk]

Did Pete write that essay about the FAA rules?

[Jeff Mando]

Wow! No wonder nobody has ever read it......

[Ivan Kelsall]

I've mentioned this before - back in 1992,i flew out to the US with my banjo & was allowed to take it on board,no questions asked,& i stored it in one of the luggage lockers spaced along the aircraft aisles. Flying from Chicago down to Nashville,i flew on a small aircraft for the internal flight,& was once again allowed to take my banjo on board,propped up against the seat next to me,secured by the seat belt !. Flying back to the UK,with my even larger Mark Leaf banjo case,i was allowed to take it on board again,this time i was told to place it in one of the overhead lockers. I did so, & there was still enough room for 2 more + extra space.

Regardless of folks personal experiences - i still maintain that 'ultimately',it's down to the check in clerk. You 'may' be asked to check it into the baggage bay or,you 'may not'. It's as simple as that. You can NOT take it for granted that you will be allowed to take it on board.

From StevenS's post - "..If a passenger with a musical instrument already has one piece of (free) carry-on baggage, the airline is permitted to charge its standard fee for a second piece of carry-on baggage even if the second piece is a musical instrument "

I'd place a large bet that most of us have seen folks with back packs as large as a small town + a piece of hand luggage boarding a plane. They don't usually get charged a cent for taking the 'hand luggage' on board,so why should it apply to a person with a musical instrument ?. Or is that simply another matter of what 'may be / may not be' allowed ?,
Ivan

[Eric C.]

Last month I carried on a mandolin and a "small personal item" which happened to be packed with 4 days worth of clothes. Carry on costs: zero.

It really all comes down to the employee you're interacting with. The gate attendant was the only employee I had to deal with (other than TSA) and all that involved was holding out my gate pass for her to scan. She never once glanced at what I was carrying.

[Marc Katz]

I have traveled many times with mandolins and sometimes guitars. Almost every time it has gone smoothly. Once in Costa Rica they confiscated an extra set of strings but not the strings on the mandolin. In Germany once, a security guy asked me to open the case take out the mandolin and play a little. Then he told me "not so good" with a big smile. I still remember that! Recently in Hong Kong I was made to check my instrument even though the airplane had enormous overhead bins that were mostly empty. But the security seemed to be on hightened alert for some reason we never determined. Somehow my guitar in a gigbag made it through unscathed.

+1 to early boarding to get into the overhead before they are full up.

Peace and Mandolin Love!

[UsuallyPickin]

Here's the thing .... yes your mandolin can go into the overhead .... " if there is room" which the flight attendant decides. I have flown many times with a mandolin , a fiddle or a combo case. I have always paid the early boarding fee. I have not yet had my instruments put into baggage because there was not space for them. I still travel with Calton cases as insurance against that time when there is no room. Soooo you pay your money and you take your chances. R/

[GeoMandoAlex]

Yes to the hard case (I would go with Hoffee, Calton, or Pegasus myself, but there are other fine choices)
Yes to carry-on!
Yes to lightly loosening the strings (not removing them; in fact, leave enough tension for the bridge not to budge)

... but no to the part about leaving your strings behind. I always carry an extra set or two in my hard case, plus a small pair of wire-cutters, too! No one in TSA, at the X-ray, has ever said a word against them. And no gate agent or cabin person/stewardess is even going to know if they're there inside a closed case. Even in the worst case-scenario, TSA would just refuse to let the strings through, and you would continue to board with your instrument and its case, after dumping them. But that's not ever happened to me in dozens of flights. In terms of risk/benefit, it pays to bring strings along.

I have had a pair of snub nosed wire cutters taken from me going through airport security. Caveat, I was flying out of either Kuwait or Bahrain or Dubai (I honestly don't recall which airport it was), but have never had them taken by the TSA folk flying domestically..

[PaulD]

My wife and I flew from SLC to PHX a few years ago with 2 mando (carry on) an extra set of strings, and some small wire cutters without issue. Flying back, the TSA person was getting rather hostile about my wire cutters. I pointed out to her that TSA in SLC saw them and didn't take issue, that the blade length was less than one inch, and so on but she wouldn't budge. I finally told her to toss them out, that they weren't missing a flight over, so she let me proceed with just the strings that would have made a much better weapon if I wanted to do injury to someone. Makes no sense sometimes.

[Tom Haywood]

Here's the latest example of how it actually works.

http://www.foxnews.com/travel/violin...-in-empty-seat

Notice that the owner boarded the airplane too late to get space in the overhead compartment, then tried placing the violin in an empty seat. He was given the choice to gate check it or take another flight. He was not prepared or willing to check the violin. That's the risk we all face unless we find a way to board the plane early enough to get space in the overhead.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Tom's post above echoes my own opinion on 'how things really work' re.taking an instrument on board. Regardless of any 'rules/regs. that the USA had brought in to cover this problem, & to allow people to take valuable instruments on board,still seems NOT to have filtered down to all airline staff. It's still very much the same in Europe (so i've been informed).

I would add one thing - Obviously, the 'space available' depends the size of the aircraft /# of passengers, & how much luggage they took on board,of which there are many variables. On smaller internal flight type aircraft full of passengers,there may not be much overhead locker room at all. Conversely,on large,intercontinental type aircraft,which are NOT full of passengers,there may be huge amounts of space available - & anything between the 2 scenarios,but how would you know until you check in ?. It also seems that what's deemed to be 'hand luggage' has taken a turn for the worst. Looking at this photo.,the items in the locker would at one time have had to be checked in as 'baggage bay' luggage & not as 'hand luggage',
Ivan

[ukenukem]

Another reason I bought a Rogue and cheap HSC - $98.00 less coupon because of other stuff I was buying. Then several sessions using Rob's fine setup ebook! Currently tuned ebf#c# using DR 12's.

Have not flown with it yet but I wager it will be easier than a gee-tar. AND, what are these "extra strings" you talk about?

[JonZ]

I regularly take both my mandolin and laptop on flights, usually on Southwest. Mandolin goes overhead. Computer goes overhead or at my feet. No problems yet.

Switching to a light-weight Gator case with backpack straps improved my travel experience immensely, especially in airports and planes. I have my hands free for holding the boarding pass and a coffee, phone, sandwich, child’s hand... or whatever. Going down the isle of the plane, the mandolin is tucked neatly behind me. Also, I can take a wee without having to set the case on the nasty restroom floor.

Of course, Gators aren’t as bulletproof as a carbon fiber case, but I would trust it in baggage, if it was plastered with “fragile” stickers.

[pops1]

Switching to a case with backpack straps improved my travel experience immensely, especially in airports and planes.

I regularly take both my mandolin and laptop on flights, usually on Southwest. Mandolin goes overhead. Computer goes overhead or at my feet. No problems yet.

I put a strap on all my cases, it makes it easier every day, especially to gigs so I can carry other stuff and the mandolin just hangs on my shoulder.

Never had a problem with strings, wire cutters or putting the mandolin in the overhead.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Jon - I have a Gator case for my Weber "Fern". Would you really trust it to stand up to mishandling like this & still keep your mandolin 'safe' ?? - i certainly wouldn't. This was filmed at Manchester airport UK a few months back. But there are several more baggage 'mishandling' clips on YouTube to put your mind at ease (LOL !!).

Anybody checking their mandolin in as 'baggage bay' luggage can expect this type of treatment,unless they're very lucky (IMHO). You might reasonably expect chunks to be chipped off your Calton / Hoffee cases if not put into a case cover, & a darned strong one at that !. Do you really think that these guys would treat a case with a few 'Fragile' stickers on it any differently ?. IMHO (again) - it could be more of a challenge to cause it some damage,
Ivan

[JonZ]

Maybe I should plaster it with stickers that say “EXPLOSIVES”.

I wouldn’t want an instrument in any type of case to be thrown around, which is why I carry mine on. However, I do think the Gator would perform well if tossed or placed at the bottom of a pile. It would be more likely to fail if somehow impaled.

Rigidity is not always the key to safety. The more rigidity, the more shock is transferred to the instrument. Think crumple zones and airbags in cars. A molded foam case probably has more shock absorption than a carbon fiber shell. So, there are trade offs. You would need a significantly heavier case, if you wanted it to be practically indestructible.

I believe Mike Marshall travels with a molded foam case. I doubt he buys it it’s own seat. So, good enough for me. There are inherent risks in traveling with an instrument. In a worst case scenario, I have insurance.

So far, I have never been asked to check it as baggage.

[Bill Cameron]

I can confirm that Westjet, in 2003, wouldn’t let you carry spare strings in your fiddle case, but wouldn’t worry about the strings on the instrument. They were also inconsistent—on a trip with a community orchestra that year, we could carry our fiddles onboard one way but had to check them on rerurn. Nowadays there is no issue carrying fiddles or mandos onboard, as a -second- carry-on, and no concern about spare strings in case. In small turboprop Dash-8’s, Westjet or Air Canada (like Ranald I fly out of Ottawa).

I would never slack the strings on a fiddle or mando, the bridge would collapse and the fiddle soundpost likely fall out of place.

[pops1]

I have never loosened my strings to fly, if you carry it on.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Mike Marshall uses (or used to use) a 'Travelite' case for his Lloyd Loar mandolin. Regarding the 'Gator',moulded ABS style case,the type that houses my Weber,the top is pretty flexible & i wouldn't trust it to prevent any really heavy weight on top of it from pressing down on the mandolin bridge & causing some real damage. A Calton / Hoffee case 'yes',but with handling like that shown in the video,there's no guarantee that either the case / mandolin or both could be damaged,
Ivan

[Jeff Mando]

I love how the baggage handler makes work for himself by reaching for the bag, pulling it toward himself, then throwing it.......if he just waited another half second it would be at the end of the conveyor and he could simply lift it and pivot placing it on the baggage cart without wasted energy. Maybe he drinks a lot of Red Bull.....