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Thread: TOH Weber warranty

  1. #26
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    Default Re: TOH Weber warranty

    Mike,
    I took on the responsibility because I value my customers and I want to keep them for years to come.

  2. #27
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: TOH Weber warranty

    And that is a noble choice but it's still your choice. That's the point I'm making. There's nothing that says TOH has to take on that responsibility unless it was part of the sales agreement between TOH and Sound To Earth and I certainly don't have a copy of that.
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

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  4. #28
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    Default Re: TOH Weber warranty

    OK, so TOH is using the Weber name. Every Mandolin they make has the Weber name, even in the same font, on the peghead.
    I just think that it's morally wrong not to stand behind the name they bought.

  5. #29
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    Default Re: TOH Weber warranty

    <violates forum posting guidelines. your comments are out of bounds and have no place here.>

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    Default Re: TOH Weber warranty

    Sorry I can not agree that the new owners of the brand, in this case TOH, can expect to derive the goodwill from that brand name and abdicate any and all responsibility to purchasers of the product of the brand name. The terms of warranty on the product at the the point of original sale should apply. It should be entirely reasonable for the original purchaser of a product with a lifetime warranty to assume that the terms of that warranty would be honored regardless of any subsequent business arrangement that purchaser was not part of or privy to.

  7. #31
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    Default Re: TOH Weber warranty

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmybikes View Post
    OK, so TOH is using the Weber name. Every Mandolin they make has the Weber name, even in the same font, on the peghead.
    I just think that it's morally wrong not to stand behind the name they bought.

    Eactly

  8. #32
    Registered User Walt's Avatar
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    Default Re: TOH Weber warranty

    Quote Originally Posted by CES View Post
    That said, I’m not knowledgeable enough about corporate/contract law to speak intelligently about what TOH legally needs to do vs what we feel they “should” do.
    I have spent time studying contract law, and warranty law specifically. I'm not going to give legal advice over the internet, so I'll offer this in very general terms: This is all a creature of contract law. We don't know who is obligated to do X without looking at the exact terms of the original warranty, and the exact terms of the agreement assigning (or not assigning) obligations from one entity to another. The answer is unknowable without that information. If you are worried that your instrument is no longer covered, just start by asking the company.

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  10. #33
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    Default Re: TOH Weber warranty

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmybikes View Post
    Every Mandolin they make has the Weber name...
    They actually make another brand of mandolin as well.
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

  11. #34
    Registered User THart's Avatar
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    Default Re: TOH Weber warranty

    Well, I guess I have the best of both worlds, Bruce Weber signed instrument after 2013 that I bought new so it sounds like I'm covered warranty wise but I would be concerned if I had one from before 2013. I guess after hearing in 2016 that he was doing the warranty work I figured that was his end of the deal. I think that if I was the original owner of an instrument prior to 2013 that needed warranty work I'd at least contact both parties. I've had dealings with both (or at least the Weber faction of TOH, at the time) & both Bruce & TOH were very responsive and helpful.

  12. #35
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    Default Re: TOH Weber warranty

    Just went to the TOH website & I'm not sure it says older warranties won't be honored. It just says the warranty as written on their website applies to instruments built after 1/1/13.

  13. #36
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    Default Re: TOH Weber warranty

    My Weber is 11yrs old. At this point in its life, I'd have a hard time finding fault in any failure that might occur to be from the manufacturing process. All wooden things fall apart and need restoration. I don't think I'd even consider asking Bruce to fix it for free if he still ran things. I've had the fretboard planed (had a hump at neck block), and evo refret, my dime. I suppose if it failed I'd have a different opinion.
    2007 Weber Custom Elite "old wood"
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  14. #37
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    Default Re: TOH Weber warranty

    Mike - The original Rolls Royce Co. was 100% British. RR is a now a wholly owned subsidiary of the German car manufacturer BMW. BMW still honour the original RR warranties of cars produced prior to their buying RR. ''For me'',if you buy a company,you also take on the responsibilities of that company. A Weber mandolin is a Weber mandolin,regardless, & should be covered by it's original warranty by the owners of the 'named' Co. The TOH took on the Weber responsibilities when they ''bought the name''. That's just the way i see it.

    Suppose the Gibson Co.was bought out by 'Kraft' - you'd still expect them to repair your mandolin wouldn't you ?. You'd maybe get a free pack of 'cheese slices' when you got it back !,

    I contacted Trevor at TAMCO UK yesterday to ask about this matter. Trevor's luthier would carry out any work to a Weber mandolin,presumably under the original warranty. That's precisely what was going to happen to my once owned Weber "Beartooth" when it developed a slightly warped neck. The logistics in sending it back to Bruce in the US & then returning it were problematic,so Bruce allowed Trevor's luthier to carry out the repair on his behalf - under warranty !.

    This speaks volumes for the integrity of Bruce Weber - hardly surprising then that his original 'after sales service' begame almost legendary !,
    Ivan
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  15. #38
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    Default Re: TOH Weber warranty

    Ivan what you said was:

    To be honest,i find it totally incongrous that TOH has retained the Weber name
    My question to you remains unanswered.

    They purchased the brand for the name. Beyond that Trevor is doing what is described under the current Warranty listed if you bother to read the whole thing.
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

  16. #39
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    Default Re: TOH Weber warranty

    The thing I see is that the retailer may be the one who might be the intermediate hands on guy in many cases doing exactly what Trevor is doing. Once the ink is dry on the sales agreement, the new owner can interpret the ramifications as they see fit. Rather like fishing, it’s not the fish that dictates what bait he was caught with, he’s resigned to the fact he bit.
    Not being flippant, but the whole lifetime warranty thing seems (at least, to me) largely unnecessary, if the instrument haves been properly constructed with quality material, there may never be a real need for it to go home to have work done, if something is in error those problems generally surface within a few years. Well, that’s been my experience.
    Full disclosure, I have no experience with the Weber Mandolin manufacturers in any stage. Weber grills, different story.
    With the grills, you call customer service and if you get get someone with enough understanding of the company and, not a green recruit who will only spout a script, you get excellent service. I don’t expect to buy a new Mandolin at this point in my life but, you never know! If I can, it would be one of Bill Halsey’s... just because!
    Timothy F. Lewis
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  17. #40
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    Default Re: TOH Weber warranty

    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    I have spent time studying contract law, and warranty law specifically. I'm not going to give legal advice over the internet, so I'll offer this in very general terms: This is all a creature of contract law. We don't know who is obligated to do X without looking at the exact terms of the original warranty, and the exact terms of the agreement assigning (or not assigning) obligations from one entity to another. The answer is unknowable without that information. If you are worried that your instrument is no longer covered, just start by asking the company.
    My point exactly, but stated much better!

    My instrument is almost 2 years old now (and definitely covered by the new warranty terms), but I can’t imagine it having a failure due to manufacturing issues at this point. Perhaps that’s a bit naive of me, as I know there have been issues (with other brands, not Weber that I’ve heard) with premature top collapse/failure, issues due to insufficiently cured wood, etc, but those typically occurred pretty early on in the examples I recall...
    Chuck

  18. #41
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    Default Re: TOH Weber warranty

    Mike - I thoroughly understand what you're saying. Using the Weber name was fine when Bruce Weber was still part of the team. But since his departure,i'd have maybe expected them to come up with an alternative name. I have to admit that 'for me',a TOH 'Weber' isn't the 'real thing',any more than a ''Martin'' guitar built by 'x' luthier,would be a 'real Martin' guitar even if they allowed him to put the Martin name on it.

    That's purely my own thinking on the matter,& being brutally honest about it - i don't regard the current Rolls Royces to be the ''real deal'' either,so i'm not going to buy one !,
    Ivan
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  19. #42
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    Default Re: TOH Weber warranty

    As has been pointed out it is a matter of contract law and warranty law. However, part of the value of the name is in its reputation for customer service. if they are not honoring the previous warranty (and I did not see anyone saying they knew this to be true) I would think of it as a bad business move as they would be lowering the reputation of the name they purchased. We don't know if this is the case and may be spreading disinformation if they are actually acting honorably. I think we are just speculating at this point.

  20. #43
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    Default Re: TOH Weber warranty

    Here's the word directly from Tom via a company email they shared with us:

    -----------------

    Dear Team,

    We have discontinued servicing Weber instruments crafted before the acquisition of Weber by Two Old Hippies Stringed Instruments. The purchase agreement with Bruce Weber included no assumption of liabilities. As a result, warranty obligations on instruments crafted before January 1, 2013 will be the responsibility of Bruce Weber at Montana Lutherie.

    We will, however, offer Weber owners of instruments built prior to January 1, 2013 with significant repair issues, a 40% discount on the purchase of a new Weber. This is at the discretion of our Weber Consumer Services Manager.

    Let me know if you have any questions.

    Cheers,
    Tom

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  22. #44
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    Default Re: TOH Weber warranty

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Kelsall View Post
    Mike - I thoroughly understand what you're saying. Using the Weber name was fine when Bruce Weber was still part of the team. But since his departure,i'd have maybe expected them to come up with an alternative name. I have to admit that 'for me',a TOH 'Weber' isn't the 'real thing',any more than a ''Martin'' guitar built by 'x' luthier,would be a 'real Martin' guitar even if they allowed him to put the Martin name on it.

    That's purely my own thinking on the matter,& being brutally honest about it - i don't regard the current Rolls Royces to be the ''real deal'' either,so i'm not going to buy one !,
    Ivan
    Ivan, they bought and paid for the brand name. Bruce can't use it anymore. That's what happens when you sell a business even if it has your name on it. You get paid, you give up the brand name. That's not unusual anywhere.
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

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  24. #45

    Default Re: TOH Weber warranty

    i don't regard the current Rolls Royces to be the ''real deal'' either,so i'm not going to buy one !,
    And that's your only reason for not buying one of course!

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    Default Re: TOH Weber warranty

    If I were to buy another Weber, I'd go straight to the man himself!

  26. #47
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    Default Re: TOH Weber warranty

    OK, just to sum this up. Pre-TOH Weber branded instruments do have a warranty that is handled by a known entity run by the person most people that are upset seem to want to do the work anyway. The gist of the original post that the warranty had been abandoned is untrue. Your warranties are in place with Montana Lutherie. Post-TOH Weber branded instruments go to TOH.
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

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  28. #48
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    Default Re: TOH Weber warranty

    Just call Bruce Weber.
    Phone: (406) 580-6053

    Steve
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  30. #49
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    Default Re: TOH Weber warranty

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Kelsall View Post
    Mike - I thoroughly understand what you're saying. Using the Weber name was fine when Bruce Weber was still part of the team. But since his departure,i'd have maybe expected them to come up with an alternative name. I have to admit that 'for me',a TOH 'Weber' isn't the 'real thing',any more than a ''Martin'' guitar built by 'x' luthier,would be a 'real Martin' guitar even if they allowed him to put the Martin name on it.
    You would have liked that or expected it?

    I understand the sentiment, but they bought the name. If there was real value in the deal for them, it was the name and trained staff and tooling for immediate mobilization. Five years on, the primary residual value IS the name. From a business perspective, I completely understand it. As a mandolin enthusiast, I'm not thrilled. For that matter I wasn't crazy about TOH even when Bruce was still involved. Regardless, I suspect that warranty claims due to significant failures on 5 year old mandolins are relatively rare. Anything that is likely to go wrong due to manufacturing or material issues will usually have done so sooner.

    My Big Sky is from 1999. Anything it needs now is maintenance as far as I'm concerned. Regardless of TOH policy, I'd never have let them put their hands on it anyway. If playing acoustic instruments, particularly vintage guitars, has taught me anything, it's that the right repairman is worth whatever he charges and mediocre repair is a bad deal even if they paid you. I don't mind paying up.

    Long story short, I don't like TOH any less than before and I hold my Pre-TOH Weber in the same high esteem that I always have. It captivated me from the start and has been a faithful companion since.
    Todd Yates

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  32. #50
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    Default Re: TOH Weber warranty

    Hi Buck - No,i wouldn't have 'liked' or really 'expected' it,but with Bruce Weber not being part of the team,apart from the Weber name,there's no actual Weber 'content' in the mandolins any more. For that simple reason, maybe a change of name would have been appropriate.

    Personally,i've never been involved with the TOH,but it wouldn't prevent me from buying from them (via a UK dealer) of course. I was disappointed to learn of their new warranty policy,but realistically,as i've already mentioned,the logistics of returning a mandolin to the USA & then back to the UK again,would be a tad arduous & not without risk. Fortunately,i did find out that a repair to my own Weber mandolin can be carried out in the UK,
    Ivan
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