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Thread: Using a capo with a mandolin?

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    Default Using a capo with a mandolin?

    I was working up an arrangement for mandolin for the fiddle tune Big John McNeil, and it’s typically in the key of A major. Playing it on the fiddle seems reasonable, but the stretch for the first part is difficult on the mandolin. Looking at a mandolin video, I noticed one where the mandolin player put a capo on the second fret and basically used fingering as if the tune was being played in G. What does the community think about capo use with mandolins? Are their any capos specifically made just for mandolin necks?

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    Registered User Simon DS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Using a capo with a mandolin?

    Capos on octave mandolins are just fine but… mandolins is a different story.
    If I was playing with a female singer who insisted, at the last minute, on a semitone change for a performance where she had a cold and didn’t feel well and was nervous about the audience and, and… then why not?

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    Default Re: Using a capo with a mandolin?

    Most people here will tell you "no". Do you care what they think? I have a capo that fits my mandolin and rarely use it, but if it was going to make a piece dramatically easier to play, I wouldn't hesitate to slap it on there.

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    Default Re: Using a capo with a mandolin?

    There are banjo/mandolin capos that will fit better. I have no problems with the use of a capo. I just checked out that tune (that's a good one!) and I would not use a capo on it. The A part would be a bit difficult but the B part has a lot of open A and E string play. So I guess it's a trade off - the capo would make the A part easier but then the B part would require some string crossings that could be awkward. Do what feels best to you. Good Luck!

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    Default Re: Using a capo with a mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ky Slim View Post
    There are banjo/mandolin capos that will fit better. I have no problems with the use of a capo. I just checked out that tune (that's a good one!) and I would not use a capo on it. The A part would be a bit difficult but the B part has a lot of open A and E string play. So I guess it's a trade off - the capo would make the A part easier but then the B part would require some string crossings that could be awkward. Do what feels best to you. Good Luck!
    Interesting that your link for the tune on The Session shows many versions in the key of G maj besides A maj! In checking out these versions you won't lose much doing the G fingering with those versions.

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    Default Re: Using a capo with a mandolin?

    I've looked at a score and I don't see the difficulty. The first section lies very comfortably in 2nd position, meaning that., e.g., the a notes (except the low ones, of course) should not be played open, but fretted.

    By contrast, I would play most of the second section on the a course, bouncing off he open a. That effect would be lost with a capo.

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    Default Re: Using a capo with a mandolin?

    Here comes the BG police... haha!

    Most the time I don't use a capo... but if the song needs a lot of sustaining, open notes, or is in a sharp or flat key (F#, Bb, etc) I'll take the assistance.

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    Default Re: Using a capo with a mandolin?

    Another possible use for the capo on a mandolin (makes me cringe though ) is if you know the tune on the top two strings A and e but you want to play it an octave below. Then it's capo at the second fret and play the 3rd and 4th strings (now A and E).

    It's very bad practice though. Much better to just learn the tune an octave below - and at the same time be aware of the positional relationships of scale, doublestops etc.

    Have fun!

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    Default Re: Using a capo with a mandolin?

    I am fairly new to mandolin where there is a general bias against a capo (10 years on bass never using a capo - very different role, and guitar and banjo in various levels of interest and proficiency for 20 years - only right, with some theory knowledge, for 10 years). I fully buy the advice to learn the songs/tunes and instrument well enough that you can play any tune in any key. While great advice as a long term goal, that it is directly counter to the also great advice to get out and play with other people as soon as possible. My overall proficiency has grown by leaps and bounds every time I have gotten to the point of playing with others on every instrument. It takes a long time to master an instrument; and at least for me, if I waited until I could play every song in every key, I would (and have in the past) lost interest before I got there. In my mind, if a capo gets me comfortable playing with other people, I’ll use it for that purpose with the long term goal of throwing it back on the banjo, never to return to the mandolin, as soon as I am comfortable with doing so.

    There are plenty of players who only play for their own enjoyment at home or on the road, and they have no desire to play with others. For that crowd, I think avoiding a capo makes sense, and why not, nobody else is looking or listening? My goal has always been to jam with others and play in bands, which have ranged from church to temporary duration cover bands for barn dances/wineries/special events to a real band with originals (a handful on the streaming services) and real gigs. I play bass in the band context right now, and I enjoy every minute; but what I’d really like to do is play primarily mandolin and sprinkle in banjo or assist on guitar as a “utility” player. I’d play with others with a capo before I would sit around with my mandolin in my hands watching. To each his/her own, I say.
    Last edited by TX2AK; Dec-12-2023 at 1:52am.

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    Default Re: Using a capo with a mandolin?

    short anwer: no, never!
    and, by the way, the capo does not help if the singer wants to sing a half tone lower, since you would need the capo on the 11th fret.
    you would be better of tuning down.

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    Default Re: Using a capo with a mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by TX2AK View Post
    I am fairly new to mandolin where there is a general bias against a capo (10 years on bass never using a capo - very different role, and guitar and banjo in various levels of interest and proficiency for 20 years - only right, with some theory knowledge, for 10 years). I fully buy the advice to learn the songs/tunes and instrument well enough that you can play any tune in any key. While great advice as a long term goal, that it is directly counter to the also great advice to get out and play with other people as soon as possible. My overall proficiency has grown by leaps and bounds every time I have gotten to the point of playing with others on every instrument. It takes a long time to master an instrument; and at least for me, if I waited until I could play every song in every key, I would (and have in the past) lost interest before I got there. In my mind, if a capo gets me comfortable playing with other people, I’ll use it for that purpose with the long term goal of throwing it back on the banjo, never to return to the mandolin, as soon as I am comfortable with doing so.

    There are plenty of players who only play for their own enjoyment at home or on the road, and they have no desire to play with others. For that crowd, I think avoiding a capo makes sense, and why not, nobody else is looking or listening? My goal has always been to jam with others and play in bands, which have ranged from church to temporary duration cover bands for barn dances/wineries/special events to a real band with originals (a handful on the streaming services) and real gigs. I play bass in the band context right now, and I enjoy every minute; but what I’d really like to do is play primarily mandolin and sprinkle in banjo or assist on guitar as a “utility” player. I’d play with others with a capo before I would sit around with my mandolin in my hands watching. To each his/her own, I say.
    You could learn your chords in a few keys, how about that???

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    Default Re: Using a capo with a mandolin?

    If you're like me, then the inexplicable opposition that some people seem to have to using a capo on a mandolin makes me want to use one even more. If it helps you play better and enjoy making music, then why wouldn't you use one? It's making music -- people can have thoughts, advice, and opinions, not moral imperatives about right and wrong here. And if someone's judging you for using a capo, that's really kind of on them. I'd say "congratulations, you're better than me" and then go back to enjoying playing my music the way I want to.

    Incidentally, after trying dozens of picks, including blue chips and tone slabs, I've found my preference to be relatively thin nylon picks. I imagine that's very much against the rules as well. Judge away.

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    Default Re: Using a capo with a mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by adam e View Post
    If you're like me, then the inexplicable opposition that some people seem to have to using a capo on a mandolin makes me want to use one even more. If it helps you play better and enjoy making music, then why wouldn't you use one? It's making music -- people can have thoughts, advice, and opinions, not moral imperatives about right and wrong here. And if someone's judging you for using a capo, that's really kind of on them. I'd say "congratulations, you're better than me" and then go back to enjoying playing my music the way I want to.

    Incidentally, after trying dozens of picks, including blue chips and tone slabs, I've found my preference to be relatively thin nylon picks. I imagine that's very much against the rules as well. Judge away.
    Do capos for mandolin even exist?
    Obviously, you cannot use a capo for guitar, because the fretboard on the mandolin is much smaller in width.

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    Default Re: Using a capo with a mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zach Wilson View Post
    Here comes the BG police... haha!

    Most the time I don't use a capo... but if the song needs a lot of sustaining, open notes, or is in a sharp or flat key (F#, Bb, etc) I'll take the assistance.
    Ha, ha, I once knew this really old guy in California who died in the ‘80’s. He was a poet but wrote twenty or thirty songs in all sorts of different wild tunings for guitar, each one with and without capos and partial capos.
    Everyone rightly called him the crazy guy when he played his songs, and people would laugh… until they heard this one song (and its crazy tuning and syncopated rhythm)
    (Amazing!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Marguerite View Post
    Do capos for mandolin even exist?
    Obviously, you cannot use a capo for guitar, because the fretboard on the mandolin is much smaller in width.
    You just take a cheap 3 dollar guitar capo and cut it down with a hacksaw and emery paper. If you also cut the handles they look quite good though requires more force to open them. There’s a type of drill that you can use to carve designs into the metal, there’s etching too and mineral/acid baths for tinting. Sometimes the spring needs re-bending, but works great - at least on my octave.
    Last edited by Simon DS; Dec-12-2023 at 8:34am.

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    Default Re: Using a capo with a mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zach Wilson View Post
    Here comes the BG police... haha!

    Most the time I don't use a capo... but if the song needs a lot of sustaining, open notes, or is in a sharp or flat key (F#, Bb, etc) I'll take the assistance.
    BG ???

    As for the general capo debate we don't need another one. No one will say anything that hasn't been said before.

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    Default Re: Using a capo with a mandolin?

    First, let me say that I am not in principle opposed to using a capo on anything, including mandolin. It's a tool - check out how Flamenco guitar players use them...also Tres players, and so on.

    That said, I pretty much don't use one on mandolin, but that's because I like playing in all sorts of keys, including ones with lots of flats.

    Quote Originally Posted by Altmandw View Post
    I was working up an arrangement for mandolin for the fiddle tune Big John McNeil, and it’s typically in the key of A major. Playing it on the fiddle seems reasonable, but the stretch for the first part is difficult on the mandolin.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ky Slim View Post
    ...and I would not use a capo on it. The A part would be a bit difficult but the B part has a lot of open A and E string play. So I guess it's a trade off - the capo would make the A part easier but then the B part would require some string crossings that could be awkward. Do what feels best to you. Good Luck!
    Quote Originally Posted by ralph johansson View Post
    I've looked at a score and I don't see the difficulty. The first section lies very comfortably in 2nd position, meaning that., e.g., the a notes (except the low ones, of course) should not be played open, but fretted.

    By contrast, I would play most of the second section on the a course, bouncing off he open a. That effect would be lost with a capo.
    I agree with them, what little you gain playing in G on the A part you more than lose in the B part.

    Just keep practicing your position playing and be sure you use your 4th finger!

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    Default Re: Using a capo with a mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marguerite View Post
    Do capos for mandolin even exist?
    Obviously, you cannot use a capo for guitar, because the fretboard on the mandolin is much smaller in width.
    Yes, they do. They can also be used for the tenor banjo.
    There are even capos for the ukuleles.

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    Default Re: Using a capo with a mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidKOS View Post
    First, let me say that I am not in principle opposed to using a capo on anything, including mandolin. It's a tool - check out how Flamenco guitar players use them...also Tres players, and so on.

    That said, I pretty much don't use one on mandolin, but that's because I like playing in all sorts of keys, including ones with lots of flats.







    I agree with them, what little you gain playing in G on the A part you more than lose in the B part.

    Just keep practicing your position playing and be sure you use your 4th finger!
    I didn't realize when starting this post that the debate would span some of the different visions about whether a capo was acceptable or not. To be clear, most of us could certainly play the tune in A maj. Although it's of Scottish origin (supposedly), in Cape Breton they often play it at a lightning speed, meaning 160 bpm or even higher. That was certainly the case, I'm assuming, for the video I mentioned where the mandolin player used a capo. Personally, I've never used a capo even on my mandocello or with an octave mandolin, but it seems that blanket rejection of the idea isn't the best conclusion. Thanks to all who have made comments in this thread!

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    Default Re: Using a capo with a mandolin?

    I have a Shubb and a Dunlop guitar capo that work just fine on mandolins. Also a banjo capo. I keep a capo handy just in case I'm at a jam and a song is called in a key that I don't know the melody in, for example a tune I know in A or D is called in Eb. Or I might need a particular sound, for example a modal tune. It's a useful tool. That said, I rarely use a capo on the mandolin - almost never. Once you learn the three finger chord shapes and where the scales fit in those and get a bit of a handle on double stops, playing in any key is no problem on the mandolin, including Eb. It's actually easier because you don't have to translate.
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    Default Re: Using a capo with a mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by ralph johansson View Post
    BG ???

    As for the general capo debate we don't need another one. No one will say anything that hasn't been said before.

    Bluegrass

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    Default Re: Using a capo with a mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Altmandw View Post
    Interesting that your link for the tune on The Session shows many versions in the key of G maj besides A maj! In checking out these versions you won't lose much doing the G fingering with those versions.
    I would say that the key of G variations on The Session were most likely uploaded for flutes, whistles and pipes and the key of A variations were likely uploaded for fiddles. There is also a D variation on there that I guess could be a compromise.

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    Default Re: Using a capo with a mandolin?

    I use a capo on guitar, banjo, and OM all the time. It’s a tool, and, especially when I was heading up the youth praise band at church with female lead singers and teenage moods (can’t tell you how many times I had to re-write piano, bass, and mandolin parts because a singer realized their voice wasn’t having it in the key they’d told me 2 weeks before was perfect). I’ve used one on mandolin in that setting where my proficiency and a lack of time didn’t allow for me to effectively re-learn a song.

    That said, it’s not as effective a tool on shorter scale instruments (I feel the same about Uke, especially sopranos). The tuning can be even more of a b&@+ch, especially if the capo is for a flat board and your mandolin is radiused. IME it just doesn’t work as well and conveniently as on the longer scale instruments.

    I primarily play at home or, occasionally with friends/family, but rarely anymore, and I think my mandolin capo is in one of the cases, or maybe the bag with my mics, cables, and pre-amp. But, I’m honestly not sure…
    Last edited by CES; Dec-12-2023 at 10:06am.

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    Default Re: Using a capo with a mandolin?

    Marguerite, I assume you are just trolling, between the rude response to me and the question about whether or not they make mandolin capos, but maybe you just don’t know.

    I know a lot of chords for a lot of keys, but not every progression for every song. Nowhere in that post did I say anything about strumming chords in a few keys - that’s not playing any song in any key. I’m talking about you know a break in G and someone calls it in A or B or C# or whatever- a capo allows you to play that break instead of strumming or chopping chords only; or maybe you don’t know the song and are following the guitarists hands to know the progression, but he’s got a capo at the 3rd fret playing in A# - I don’t have all those known well enough to transcribe on the fly and play fast progressions, but a capo allows me to do that while I’m still learning all chords and inversions in all keys. Also, I don’t think most newer players can transpose on the fly.

    And not only do they make capos for mandolins, plenty of pros use capos when they think appropriate. I’ve seen Sierra Hull talk about using a capo in “pretty much every show on a few songs.” I’m going to say she knows a few chords in a few keys.

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    Default Re: Using a capo with a mandolin?

    Once you learn the three finger chord shapes and where the scales fit in those and get a bit of a handle on double stops, playing in any key is no problem on the mandolin, including Eb. It's actually easier because you don't have to translate.
    Agree. One of my jamming buddies randomly places a capo for many of his tunes. And to complicate matters, he uses funky guitar chord shapes, hard for me to follow. But he can always tell us what key he’s in. Once the root is established it’s just a matter of locating where to land on the neck.
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    Default Re: Using a capo with a mandolin?

    Yes it’s part of an inclusive session etiquette, looking around to see what key would be most suitable for all the different people, their experience and all the different instruments.
    Best to just smile, thank everyone, be grateful for the little time we have. Even if someone plays a tune badly from a social point of view, with a universal/human point of view it’s still a beautiful tune.

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