Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 41

Thread: Was Neil Diamond Right?

  1. #1
    ===========
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    1,628

    Default Was Neil Diamond Right?

    Several days ago I heard a quote that was attributed to Neil Diamond. Apparently while discussing songwriting, Diamond said; 'I have forgiven myself for not being Beethoven.'

    In the days that have passed since hearing the statement, I have been somewhat ambiguous about my own thoughts on the subject. While I fully realize that I will never be Jethro Burns, Bill Bolick or Dave Apollon - have I 'forgiven myself for it'? I guess if I were being honest, I would have to answer 'no', because I am probably afraid that if I forgive myself, I will not continue to strive to be the best that I can possibly can - (which will be at least three steps below the low/intermediate level).

    Thoughts?

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MikeZito For This Useful Post:


  3. #2
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    30,753

    Default Re: Was Neil Diamond Right?

    I have long ago given up getting even remotely close to those upper,upper level talents of yesterday or today. Perhaps decades ago I would sit in the audience listening and comparing my playing to those on stage. Now, I just enjoy their virtuosity, feel the chills that come from the realization that a human being can get to that level with a combination of inborn talent, inner drive and obsession with precision and perfection. OTOH I can accept my level of musicianship and also accept my given talents for what they are.

    Last night I got together with some good friends and played a bunch of old time tunes. My fiddling sounded fine to me and there were some moments when all the musicians in the room synced and the sound was oh so pleasing. Nothing that anyone would marvel at in any concert hall, but it felt good to at least be at that level.

    Today I was at a local library and I happened on a concert by a competition-winning young pianist playing Chopin and Rachmaninoff and I just sat there stupified that any being on earth could play those pieces not only competently but with sublime feeling. So it goes. I think that after years of playing music I no longer have that reaction I might have had in my youth—of feeling that in the presence of such immense talent I should just chuck my instruments into the dumpster.
    Last edited by Jim Garber; Nov-04-2018 at 10:27pm.
    Jim

    My Stream on Soundcloud
    Facebook
    19th Century Tunes
    Playing lately:
    1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1

  4. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Jim Garber For This Useful Post:


  5. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    S.W. Wisconsin
    Posts
    7,507

    Default Re: Was Neil Diamond Right?

    I had a teacher in grade school that said "Everyone can do something better than anyone else in the world, even if it's closing the barn door." I doubt the great musician playing Chopin and Rachmaninoff could play a fiddle tune as well as you Jim, or many other old time musicians. There is a feeling that comes with playing music you are familiar with and there are a great many of us who do it well. Do we do it as well as some of the great old time players, no, but maybe they can't close the barn door.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

  6. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to pops1 For This Useful Post:


  7. #4
    Registered User JAK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    California
    Posts
    804

    Default Re: Was Neil Diamond Right?

    "Be yourself. Everyone else is taken."
    John A. Karsemeyer

  8. The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to JAK For This Useful Post:

    + Show/Hide list of the thanked


  9. #5

    Default Re: Was Neil Diamond Right?

    I think he was right. There are always new and different ways of doing things, even though I have a heck of a lot of respect for the old ways, too. If something is good, it is good. Neil was the consummate performer and songwriter of his day, check out his live performances some time. Could Beethoven have done that with a modern electric band? Not sure. But either way, it is all good to have these talented musician's contributions.

  10. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    486

    Default Re: Was Neil Diamond Right?

    Well, my first answer to the question upon reading the thread title and before opening the rest of the text was: Yes. (I mean, he IS Neil Diamond).

    More to the point, I'll keep trying to get faster, cleaner, etc., and not try to compare myself to anyone. It's fun to improve. I rarely noodle or work out breaks to songs, but was doing some of that earlier this evening, the Beatles' For No One. I didn't get far with it yet, but that alone was rewarding and fun. Just my mando and me. How fast CT plays was pretty far from my mind.

  11. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Winnsboro, LA
    Posts
    76

    Default Re: Was Neil Diamond Right?

    I love the culture that this instrument has created. I love playing and learning. I also know I will never play on a stage and never in front of more people than my little church group. I feel like my ambition to get better is not driven by a quest for perfection. If it was all the great things around me would disappear. I am on a quest to be competent and that a high enough mark. Professional musicians must have a much higher mark but they too risk the alienation of all else if they pursue too boldly. Even Beethoven died penniless so perfection isn’t often equated to success.

  12. #8

    Default Re: Was Neil Diamond Right?

    True that, but there are also other modern musicians who made a lot of money in music. But I agree perfection can't be the goal because it will be failed 100% of the time. Being good, really good, top, soulful, whatever, is a much better goal. You choose your altitude!

  13. The following members say thank you to illinoisfiddler for this post:


  14. #9
    Registered User Mandobart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    3,652

    Default Re: Was Neil Diamond Right?

    I believe people who seek recognition, income, fame, etc. from their music may have different personal needs, goals and motivation than those who play for personal enrichment, social interaction etc. I say all the time there are artists, musicians and entertainers. Most of us combine elements of two of these. Very few people embody all three. I am mostly a musician. Playing music has been part of my life for most of my life. Although I am periodically paid to perform and am quite comfortable in front of an audience, I'd much rather play with others than play for others.

  15. The following members say thank you to Mandobart for this post:


  16. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    S.W. Wisconsin
    Posts
    7,507

    Default Re: Was Neil Diamond Right?

    On a side note I was just telling this story tonight. I saw Neil perform in Hawaii in 1969 when I was in the service. An hour into the concert he said, "I am here to please you, what do you want to hear". For an hour he took requests and did every one. The only one to shake him was 'A Lion Sleeps Tonight', he took a full minute, with his back to the band, working with the guitar player, I think Red Shea, and did a perfect rendition of the that song. I know of no other performer who has taken requests in a concert for an hour and did every one flawlessly, even if it was someone eles's song. It seemed like he could play and sing anything, while Beethoven was great at what he did, Neil was great at what he did, and was great at what others did. None of the request were rehearsed or could have been known in advance. I was very impressed with this man and his bands talent.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

  17. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to pops1 For This Useful Post:


  18. #11
    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    0.8 mpc from NGC224, upstairs
    Posts
    10,054

    Default Re: Was Neil Diamond Right?

    I have not given up trying to be Bertram Henze someday, yet...
    the world is better off without bad ideas, good ideas are better off without the world

  19. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Bertram Henze For This Useful Post:


  20. #12
    Iberian mandolin roberto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    377

    Default Re: Was Neil Diamond Right?

    I'm too busy forgiving myself all the time for being myself!
    Last edited by roberto; Nov-05-2018 at 4:48am.

  21. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to roberto For This Useful Post:


  22. #13

    Default Re: Was Neil Diamond Right?

    Everyone has their strengths. I watch some of the younger players, and I cannot stop thinking sometimes that they are trying to imitate those a bit older (who are enjoying some real success). While one would hope, even in classical circles, that these individuals will progress into their own groove, I wonder how many will be out and about playing in ten years time. Some have carved out a niche for themselves, and others, while supremely talented, are still scratching out a living.

    Life is hard as a musician, and unless you plan carefully, I am not sure what retirement looks like. Many of my friends are lifelong professional musicians. While I admire their talent and their playing, I don't envy their financial situations. So, I don't think I have anything to forgive myself for, other than the fact that it still irks me that Mom was right- "you have to have something else to fall back on if the music thing doesn't work out for you".
    "your posts ... very VERY opinionated ...basing your opinion/recommendations ... pot calling ...kettle... black...sarcasm...comment ...unwarranted...unnecessary...."

  23. The following members say thank you to Mandobar for this post:

    tree 

  24. #14
    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Kalamazoo, MI.
    Posts
    7,487

    Default Re: Was Neil Diamond Right?

    I like this quote too:
    “I yam what I yam and, that’s all what I yam.”
    Popeye
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

  25. #15
    Registered User Lane Pryce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Asheboro,NC
    Posts
    2,281

    Default Re: Was Neil Diamond Right?

    Maybe he forgot his self because he drank too much Cracklen Rosey. Lp
    J.Lane Pryce

  26. #16
    Doc Ivory Doc Ivory's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    South West Florida
    Posts
    123

    Default Re: Was Neil Diamond Right?

    Its still a hard thought for me to realize I probably won't be playing Madison Square Garden or the Grand 'Ole Oprey but alas, I still practice with that thought in mind.

    My hands may be arthritic now but my head and heart still think I could still be up there some day.
    Dumb? You bet but it keeps me going and it also keeps me from just sitting in my easy chair.

    Nope, I haven't forgiven myself for not being Jimmy Page, Earl Scruggs or Bill Monroe.
    Doc Ivory
    -Play loud, live long..

  27. #17
    Registered User tree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    northern Virginia
    Posts
    1,570

    Default Re: Was Neil Diamond Right?

    When I was young I used to think world class musicians were supremely gifted - I had no idea the unbelievable amount of time they spend working to learn and improve. Then I took a few lessons from one, and I discovered that some people are hardwired to pursue music with all their being; in other words they never get bored, and they never get tired of having an instrument in their hands, they often tend to get lost in it and their consciousness of time disappears. I think psychologists call this "flow". Yes, they are supremely gifted, but they also are driven.

    So I've "forgiven myself" for having a lot of interests in addition to music, and I greatly appreciate those who are driven to pursue their craft despite the difficulties inherent to the life of professional musicians because what they do enriches my life.
    Clark Beavans

  28. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to tree For This Useful Post:


  29. #18
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Kernersville, NC
    Posts
    2,593
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default Re: Was Neil Diamond Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by tree View Post
    Yes, they are supremely gifted, but they also are driven.
    When I sit down to practice I usually have something in mind to try learn or improve. That holds for 20-30 minutes and then I want to just play something. I can not imagine disciplined practice that lasts for hours every day.

  30. #19
    Orrig Onion HonketyHank's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Beaverton, OR, USA
    Posts
    1,778
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Was Neil Diamond Right?

    Well, in my day I was a far better flour miller than Beethoven or even Mike Marshall. So there. Ha!
    New to mando? Click this link -->Newbies to join us at the Newbies Social Group.

    Just send an email to rob.meldrum@gmail.com with "mandolin setup" in the subject line and he will email you a copy of his ebook for free (free to all mandolincafe members).

    My website and blog: honketyhank.com

  31. The following members say thank you to HonketyHank for this post:


  32. #20
    harvester of clams Bill McCall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Forest Grove, Oregon
    Posts
    2,776

    Default Re: Was Neil Diamond Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Timbofood View Post
    I like this quote too:
    “I yam what I yam and, that’s all what I yam.”
    Popeye
    “And if I’m somebody else, why do I look like me”
    Not all the clams are at the beach

    Arrow Manouche
    Arrow Jazzbo
    Arrow G
    Clark 2 point
    Gibson F5L
    Gibson A-4
    Ratliff CountryBoy A

  33. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Bill McCall For This Useful Post:


  34. #21

    Default Re: Was Neil Diamond Right?

    If you do not play or create music for its own intrinsic value, at whatever level your own talent and drive allow, you are destined to beat yourself up. Some are lucky enough that what they do has a monetary value, most are not. And many times the true genius talents are so far ahead of their time they can comand no commercial value at all. This does not stop them from what they need to do.

    For others, their talent fits a commercial niche, like jungle writers. Their abilities and the commercial need run parallel courses.

    Now the classical greats survived because it was a cultural prestigious thing to be a patron. The commercial value was their status derived from their patronage. Thus the greats were able to create and survive at the same time.

    An artist like Neil Diamond thrived because what he was good at was was wanted by mass markets. Wildly more monetarily viable than Philip Glass, who nonetheless had enough patronage to create.

    But I have no doubt there is something inherent in all artists, the need to do what they do. The fact that society at large validate only a few does not stop the artist painting, the musician playing, or a composer composing, or a 29 year old minor leaguer playing ball.
    Silverangel A
    Arches F style kit
    1913 Gibson A-1

  35. #22
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    24,807
    Blog Entries
    56

    Default Re: Was Neil Diamond Right?

    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

    The entire staff
    funny....

  36. #23
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    24,807
    Blog Entries
    56

    Default Re: Was Neil Diamond Right?

    oops
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

    The entire staff
    funny....

  37. #24
    Registered User Ranald's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    1,733

    Default Re: Was Neil Diamond Right?

    Personally, I felt that one of the joys of taking up mandolin in my sixties was that I didn't have to aim for brilliance -- it's too late for that anyway -- I could aim for competence instead. (I too am of the Popeye philosophical school.)
    Robert Johnson's mother, describing blues musicians:
    "I never did have no trouble with him until he got big enough to be round with bigger boys and off from home. Then he used to follow all these harp blowers, mandoleen (sic) and guitar players."
    Lomax, Alan, The Land where The Blues Began, NY: Pantheon, 1993, p.14.

  38. The following members say thank you to Ranald for this post:


  39. #25
    Registered User Eric Platt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts
    2,045

    Default Re: Was Neil Diamond Right?

    I don't compose, so I never have to worry about being Beethoven, or Neil Diamond for that matter. My whole striving is to try to sound like myself. That's the big challenge. Hopefully I can get to that point someday.
    Brentrup Model 23, Boeh A5 #37, Gibson A Jr., Big Muddy M-11, Coombe Classical flattop, Strad-O-Lin
    https://www.facebook.com/LauluAika/
    https://www.lauluaika.com/
    https://www.facebook.com/Longtine-Am...14404553312723

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •