Help with identifing the age of a J-45 Gibson Guitar

[Tukanu]

I know this is a mandolin forum, but I don't know where to turn for help. My neighbor has an old J-45 that he is thinking of selling. I think it is between 1950 and 54. 19 fret, three piece edge binding, post-rectangular bridge.
I have the FON: 4689 and possibly 21 after the space.
Any ideas?

[Mark Seale]

Do you have a picture of the whole front of the guitar? What shape is the bridge (if it's original) rectangle, belly up, belly down? Pictures of the Gibson logo on the headstock? What's the shape and volume of the neck? In 1952 (I think) Gibson started the stamped numbers with Z and they went down alphabetically from there by year. With no letter, it is likely pre-1952.

*letters may have started in 1953 (can't find my reference book right now)

[slimt]

1950 .small guard .non adjustbelly up bridge
Most 51 and 1952 seemed to be serial numberless
Only going by what features they had .
49 was the same
I believe prior was a rectangle bridge
42 to 45 a banner headstock no truss rod

[rcc56]

The tapered headstock is discontinued in mid-1950. The lettered factory order number system begins in 1952 with the letter Z.

My older edition of Gruhn's Guide shows the following factory order numbers:
3700-4500 used early 1949
2000's in late '49
3000-5000 in 1950
6000-9000 in '51

If it's got a peghead of uniform thickness, I'd call it "circa 1950." If the peghead is noticeably thinner at the top than it is at the E string tuners, you can call it "circa 1949."

Doesn't really matter much except for the market value incurred by the logo-- internally, there's no difference between a '42 Banner and a 1954 model, except for wartime wood substitutions.

If it's got the original tuners, open-gear Klusons would give "bragging rights" for an earlier build than enclosed Klusons.

"If it's a Gibson, within 1 or 2 years is good enough."

[Tukanu]

Thanks for all the good info...I knew the Café could help me.
It is a belly up bridge, truss rod, smaller pick guard, and the FON would put it at 1950.
The neck is straight and level, although there is finger wear on the fret board. Replaced tuners (yuk).
A nasty split about 6" long on the treble side of the pick guard, but repairable.

Reverb says $3,000 to $5,000. Sound about right?

[slimt]

With a split 3 ish

[Br1ck]

At any rate, a very desirable guitar.

[slimt]

To be honest its just a J45 . they have there followers though .

If it was a Banner. That would be a good catch .

[Jim Garber]

A lot depends on condition, of course. Post additional photos as requested above. Easy to search on dealer sites plus Reverb for pricing. Reverb will give you a better idea since eBay is more often variable in the knowledge of the sellers. Some are pricing high to see where it will go. Also bear in mind that most dealers will price higher and settle for somewhat less but reliable ones will generally have instruments that will not need additional work.

[Jeff Mando]

To be honest its just a J45 . they have there followers though .

If it was a Banner. That would be a good catch .

A vintage Gibson J-45 is one of the most popular guitars of all time. Very desirable, a classic instrument.

Sure, Banner logo Gibsons bring a little more money, but some have such a huge neck that some people find unplayable and some don't have a truss rod, if that is important to you.

[Tukanu]

Thanks for all the posts. I agree, this is a desirable guitar. I have studied Reverb off and on today. Its a great source for info (not as great as the café!). The sales prices may be a little suspect, since you don't know exactly the terms of the sale. Never the less, it is a useful tool. I'm not a "guitar" person, but I do play enough to know a good sound and comfortable neck. So, this one has both. The repair to the split top looks pretty straight forward. I was watching a good video from StewMac about repairing splits, and how they can be caused by a pick guard. I am sure this is the case with this split. It may not show up in the pics, but it looks to be caused by the pick guard not able to respond to humidity changes. The logo is totally in keeping with a 1950's Gibson. The reverse belly as well. The 19 frets is also a clue, and the FON number. I told my neighbor that the tuners need to go. It might cost a $100 to find some period correct Klusons, but it seem logical that that would be a good investment. Other than some gouges on the top and the reparable split, this seems pretty sound. Again, I'm not a guitar person, but the sound strikes me as very well balanced. As suggested, more pics would help, so here goes:

[Br1ck]

When I was hunting for a J 45 I could afford, I also played a few that I couldn't, the most memerable was actually a 1939 J 35. That one haunts me. Three banners were all good. I think I played one late forties and two 50s guitars. They were all great guitars and they were all expensive.

Now what I could afford was 60s vintage and these were without a doubt the most inconsistent group of guitars I ever played. I finally found an Epiphone Texan from 65 that was exactly the sound I wanted that I could afford. The dry thumpy Gibson tone has no equal if that is what you want. The only current guitar I played that came close was the J 45 vintage. Had me believing in cooked wood.

Along in my travels I found out about LG3s. I want an old one.

Kluson makes drop in reproductions with either the original gear ratio or an 18:1 ratio. I put a set on an old Epiphone my friend has and you couldn't tell them from the Klusons on my 65 Texan. Those tuners on the J 45 might be interesting to someone with a mid 70s Guild.

I'd view that guitar at $3000 as a real deal, and $4K in my neck of the woods, fixed and with new tuners, is reasonable.

[rcc56]

If he neighbor wants to prepare it for sale, it would be worth it to replace the tuners, even if the replacements are modern reproduction Kluson style tuners. Also, rotate that truss rod cover 180 degrees-- it's upside down, and marketing it reversed will wreak havoc with buyers' attitudes.

If there's a really good luthier in your area, it would be worth it to have the crack glued and touched up. But unless there's a luthier that is top-notch, it would probably be better to sell it as-is, because a mediocre repair may reduce the instrument's value.

I would recommend gbase.com for price comparisons rather than Reverb. And disregard any gbase prices that are significantly higher than everybody else's average.

A useful marketing tool for advertising a J-45 from this period is to mention that the body is braced the same as a banner model.