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Thread: Gibson F-5 copy with "birdseye" maple

  1. #1
    Certified! Bernie Daniel's Avatar
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    Default Gibson F-5 copy with "birdseye" maple

    Just thought I'd post this to see if anyone has an idea of who might have made this mandolin? I bought it a few weeks ago for a very reasonable amount of money.

    If it is not obvious from the photos this is a very well built mandolin - -whoever made it was an experience and talented instrument builder. The carving is sophisticated (beautiful re-curve and arching), the inlay and binding are nice and neat, and the finish is a quality job (it might be varnish). Of course the quality of the wood is excellent. The only "flaw" I can see is the scroll is probably not quite a tight as it "should be"?

    The mandolin sounds pretty good too -- not the equal of my Harvey-signed Sam Bush but nice. A little thinner and more shifted to the treble side than most of my authentic Gibsons but still very respectable.

    A few details. I bought it from a gentleman in central Ohio -- he in turn had purchased it from a guitar and banjo maker (Ray Sparks) who had lived and worked in Columbus before he passed on a few years ago.

    Maybe some have heard of Mr. Sparks? I did not know him. Further, according to the late Mr. Sparks the mandolin was made by someone in "northern Kentucky"? Well I know a bit about northern Kentucky and that does not ring a bell. I've also talked to some of the builders around here and that information does not jog any memories with them either. So I have my doubts about a "northern Kentucky" builder.

    All this leads me to speculate that perhaps Mr. Sparks himself might have made it? Having been a skilled instrument builder he probably had the requisite carving and finishing skills?

    Anyway it has a label inside stating it was made in 2006 (pretty recent times!) and that it was intended to be a tribute to "the great Gibson master models of the 1920s"
    No name of course on the label.

    I'll probably keep if for a while and then move it along but I would like to try to figure out who made it first. If anyone has any clues I'd be interested in following up on them.
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    Bernie
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    Due to current budgetary restrictions the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off -- sorry about the inconvenience.

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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gibson F-5 copy with "birdseye" maple

    All threads with Ray Sparks in them can be found here.

    Nice find Bernie.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

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    Certified! Bernie Daniel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gibson F-5 copy with "birdseye" maple

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    All threads with Ray Sparks in them can be found here.

    Nice find Bernie.
    Thanks Mike -- I never thought of searching the MC for Mr. Sparks. So as the threads show he was indeed a mandolin builder as well as guitars and banjos. For the most part the comments are not too glowing about his mandolins. But I am struck by one comment on Sparks mandolins:

    "...i have bought and sold several of Rays mandolins over the years,probably 7-8 ,they have all sounded great,esp. for the price range,the down side is the inlay is always a little sloppy and he uses cheap hardware,tailpice ,tuners etc,but nice flamey woods,....
    great sound ,cosmetics a little rough!"

    This statement hits the mark on the quality of the wood used but I would not call the inlay or finish on this mandolin to be "sloppy" -- in fact the opposite. Likewise the hardware is not cheap (the tuners seem to be gold plated Grovers).

    But this really interesting thread from 2004 was intriguing. Of course, it can't be about this mandolin of course as this one did not exist yet. But there is a lot of info about Columbus area builders. Also mention of a individual by the name of Bill Flemming. This reminded me of one detail I had forgotten. According to Mr. Sparks the mandolin was build by someone named "Bill" who lived in northern Kentucky? Same Bill? Its a lead at least.

    An aside. That thread also answered another totally off-topic question that I have had for decades -- whatever happen to a great young mandolin player who used to pick around central Ohio in the early '70s named Jeff Terflinger. Sadly it seems Jeff has passed on.
    Bernie
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    Default Re: Gibson F-5 copy with "birdseye" maple

    I'll add a few other things I have observed.

    1) I see no name penciled on the inside top although the dental mirror I used is not the best approach. I have a little "cheepie" boroscope camera that fits on my cell phone and I'll take a better look with that soon.

    2) Also the neck block has a single Phillips head screw that looks like it is part of the neck joint?

    3) The tone bars are nicely scalloped but seem to be equal distant from the center -- that is you can touch both tone bars by sticking your little finger in the bottom of the f-hole.

    4) Finally, I have not put the Hacklinger gauge on it yet but the top board seems very thin -- however no sign of any deformation or sagging at all.
    Bernie
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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gibson F-5 copy with "birdseye" maple

    Hi Bernie - That's a beautiful looking mandolin !. The 'thin' tone might very well be because of the thinner top. I discussed such a topic with our mutual friend ''Fiddlin' Will', regarding his thinning out of the top of a mandolin that he owns. Fortunately,he'd only ''thinned out'' a tiny section of the top to remove a blemish.

    I can't see anything wrong with the scroll - at least from the picture. Maybe the strap is in the way ?. Here's a pic. of a '23 Lloyd Loar & the scroll on your mandolin isn't a million miles away.

    I'd play the dickens out of that one & try a few different brands of string on it (as usual),just to see if i could find a good match for it,
    IvanClick image for larger version. 

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    Weber F-5 'Fern'.
    Lebeda F-5 "Special".
    Stelling Bellflower BANJO
    Tokai - 'Tele-alike'.
    Ellis DeLuxe "A" style.

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    Certified! Bernie Daniel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gibson F-5 copy with "birdseye" maple

    Thanks Ivan! I have been playing it this week and it is starting to sound better - what is really happening I believe is that while the mandolin is the same my ears are becoming used to the sound of it? But let's not get into that can of worms. LOL!

    The more I examine this mandolin the more I am struck by the really high quality workmanship. Every part of the mandolin is neat and very precisely cut out and fitted up. And it is tasteful as well. The colors of the sunburst are not quite like a '20s Gibson but still beautiful and the sunburst is very well done - even on the top. Anyone who as tried to do a sunburst on spruce knows how hard that is. Even the truss rod pocket is neatly and properly carved and there is ready access to the truss rod nut with a wrench if one wanted too. Another sign that this mandolin is definitely not someon's first rodeo.

    I am also starting to think that someone tried to "distress" the instrument and make it look much older than its 12 years?
    Bernie
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    Due to current budgetary restrictions the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off -- sorry about the inconvenience.

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    Default Re: Gibson F-5 copy with "birdseye" maple

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernie Daniel View Post
    I'll add a few other things I have observed.


    2) Also the neck block has a single Phillips head screw that looks like it is part of the neck joint?
    Some builders use a wood screw in the neck joint more to assist with clamping during the glue up than as a structural component.

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    Default Re: Gibson F-5 copy with "birdseye" maple

    Nice looking mandolin!
    FYI - I'm pretty sure those are Schaller tuning machines

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    Default Re: Gibson F-5 copy with "birdseye" maple

    Quote Originally Posted by colorado_al View Post
    Nice looking mandolin!
    FYI - I'm pretty sure those are Schaller tuning machines
    Could be. Whatever they work well - very smooth to operate.
    Bernie
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    Due to current budgetary restrictions the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off -- sorry about the inconvenience.

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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gibson F-5 copy with "birdseye" maple

    Bernie - The tuners do indeed look like Schallers. Here are my Lebeda Schallers - the very smoothest of any of the tuners on my 3 mandolins,& they're all 'smooth' in operation,
    Ivan
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    Weber F-5 'Fern'.
    Lebeda F-5 "Special".
    Stelling Bellflower BANJO
    Tokai - 'Tele-alike'.
    Ellis DeLuxe "A" style.

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