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Thread: Tuning Mandolin without a tuner

  1. #1

    Default Tuning Mandolin without a tuner

    Do you have a method to tune the mandolin without an electronic tuner?

    I recently took mine on a trip and forgot to bring my tuner.
    The mandolin was quite out of tune from the travel. I carefully tuned each string to be consonant (beatless) with the adjacent string, a 5th away.
    The end result was a sour sounding mandolin. The G string and the high G, 1st string 3rd fret, we’re not happy.

    I suspect perfectly tuned 5ths are not the same as equal temperament from a digital tuner.

    I realized I have never tuned the mandolin without a tuner and don’t have a method that works.
    I can tune a guitar pretty easily, as that is my first instrument.

    If you have a tuning method for mandolin, by ear, without a tuner, I’d like to hear about it.

    Thanks,
    Tonear

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Tuning Mandolin without a tuner

    Tune one of the A strings to a reference tone and work from that. To some of us, electronic tuners are something of a novelty although useful to make sure that everyone starts from the same point. (That is until you find that the accordian player is tuned to 446Hz)

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    Adrian Minarovic
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    Default Re: Tuning Mandolin without a tuner

    I never owned electronic tuner so tuning by ear is all I do. (I've used electronic tuner when we were tuning for a gig with band in somewhat noisy environment but the only tuner I own is simple a440 fork). I just tune each of the strings up by ear and don't listen for 5ths... I found out that after years of practice I can tune new strings up to correct pitch even without tuner within few cents. Only rarely I use the fork to check the pitch (mostly for other instruments than mandolin)
    Back when I was beginner I used the 7th fret method but you need perfectly set up instrument or it will be bad. On instruments during setup I check 12th fret harmonics and also G and D strings at 14th whether thay match the open strings and of course 5th fret octaves. Setup is rarely perfect and you want to compensate for any weird pitches. I sometimes tune the e tiny bit lower or D lower if the bridge comensation makes them too high up the neck at the positions I mostly play...
    Adrian

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    Registered User Bob Visentin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tuning Mandolin without a tuner

    If you have a smart phone or a computer, lap top, or pad, you can get a tuner app for free. I have found these to be very accurate.

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    Default Re: Tuning Mandolin without a tuner

    When I started I would tune the E to the A noted of 7 th fret etc. Can check or fine tune by noting 5 th fret and tuning or checking next lower string one octave apart. I have used a florescent light buzz for a starting point the buzz on 60 cycle electricity is a B or awful close.

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    Default Re: Tuning Mandolin without a tuner

    There was life before electronic tuners.

    I tune the open fifths, then check the octave between the open string and its neighbor at the fifth fret. I then check the double stops between the lower string at the open, 2nd, 4th, and 7th frets against the neighboring open higher string [i.e. on the A and E strings A/E, B/E, C#/E, E/E]. I go for a tempered tuning where no notes may be "perfect" but all notes are "pleasant."

    I make a point of teaching my students how to tune without an electronic tuner once they advance to a certain point. Some have an easier time with it than others.

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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tuning Mandolin without a tuner

    Buy yourself a tuning fork of the exact same pitch as any of your strings & keep it permanently in your case. I still tune my banjo to a tuning fork & it's always in tune with any other instruments that i might play along with.

    From rcc56 - " I tune the open fifths,.." What reference note do you use ?,
    Ivan
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    Registered User treidm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tuning Mandolin without a tuner

    In USA, a landline dial-tone has two notes
    The higher pitch is A - 440Hz
    The softer lower tone is F - 350Hz

    You can use it to get one string and relative tune from there
    Dial-tones will time out, but just hangup and start again to keep tuning
    If you used the F tone, you would need to hold E string at first fret or use capo, to tune to F
    Otherwise the A 440 would of course do A string

    , Reid

    Here is a chart for Tones by Country
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    2011 Black A5 (#9) Mandolin
    1952 Gibson A-40N Mandolin
    1924 Gibson TB-1 Trapdoor Tenor Banjo
    1975 Gibson MK-35 Hybrid Braced Dreadnought Guitar
    1993 Washburn M3 SW/TS F-Style Mandolin
    2004 Martin D-16 GT Dreadnought Guitar
    2006 Martin DC-16RGTE AURA Dreadnought Guitar
    1997 Seagull S6 Dreadnought Guitar
    1970's Kay KB-52 5-String Banjo
    1960's Pirles 4-String Tenor Banjo

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    Registered User Ranald's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tuning Mandolin without a tuner

    I went to a good concert last night with Archie Fisher and Garnett Rogers. Garnett told of watching Jeff Muldar in concert. Some old fellow took umbrage with Jeff's use of an electronic tuner on his guitar, and shouted out, "Come on, you can tune without that gizmo." Jeff's response: "If we had these gizmos back in the day, the 60's would have passed much more quickly."
    Robert Johnson's mother, describing blues musicians:
    "I never did have no trouble with him until he got big enough to be round with bigger boys and off from home. Then he used to follow all these harp blowers, mandoleen (sic) and guitar players."
    Lomax, Alan, The Land where The Blues Began, NY: Pantheon, 1993, p.14.

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    The Amateur Mandolinist Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tuning Mandolin without a tuner

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    Still Picking and Sawing Jack Roberts's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tuning Mandolin without a tuner

    The simplest method I know is to start with tuning by 5ths, then fret a 2-0-0-2 D chord and tweak from there. The A to D sound should sound like the "A-MAY" in "Amazing Grace", the D to A is "Twinkle-twinkle" and the A to F# is the same interval as the guitar interlude from the middle of the Beatles' "Two of Us" or the "He Lives" in the hymn "I Serve a Risen Savior" or even "My Baw" in "My Bonnie Lies Over the Ocean."

    Then strum. It should sound pretty.

    I use this quick technique when I have to tune to a guitar on stage. We used to have a 12 string guitarist in our band, and in interest of peace and unity in the band, we used to all tune to his A strings, because his was the instrument that was hardest to tune.

    If, after that, it's out of tune up the neck, you need to work on re-positioning your bridge.

    Why does a mandolin have 8 strings?
    To improve your chances of one of them being nearly in tune.
    Ha, ha! keep time: how sour sweet music is,
    When time is broke and no proportion kept!
    --William Shakespeare

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    Default Re: Tuning Mandolin without a tuner

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Kelsall View Post
    Buy yourself a tuning fork of the exact same pitch as any of your strings & keep it permanently in your case. I still tune my banjo to a tuning fork & it's always in tune with any other instruments that i might play along with.

    From rcc56 - " I tune the open fifths,.." What reference note do you use ?,
    Ivan
    When I am alone, I use an A 440 tuning fork. When I'm teaching, I use the A from my piano or tune to the student, depending on the nature of the student and the lesson. If I'm gigging with a group and there is a keyboard player, I get an A from him.

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    Struggle Monkey B381's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tuning Mandolin without a tuner

    why does a mandolin have 8 strings?
    To improve your chances of one of them being nearly in tune.
    lol.....
    "It doesn't matter how much you invest in your instrument until you invest in you and your ability..."

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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tuning Mandolin without a tuner

    I have a tuning app on my cell phone.

    I also have a tuning fork at 440 in gig bag just in case everything fails.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

    The entire staff
    funny....

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    Registered User Joey Anchors's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tuning Mandolin without a tuner

    I’ve never used a tuning fork and like the idea rather than using a clip-on tuner that requires a battery. (Which is what I’ve been using)
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    Registered User foldedpath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tuning Mandolin without a tuner

    Quote Originally Posted by Joey Anchors View Post
    I’ve never used a tuning fork and like the idea rather than using a clip-on tuner that requires a battery. (Which is what I’ve been using)
    This is going to sound hostile I know, but I won't play with a band member or in a session where people aren't using digital tuners, so everyone is at least reasonably in tune with each other.

    Tuning in 5ths is fine for fiddlers because they can finger the string to be intonation. On a mandolin we're locked into 12TET with our frets, and a digital tuner is the best way to get there.

    That's a battle many of us fought, years ago... band practices where half the time was spent tuning up, or arguing over who was or wasn't in tune. We have cheap devices now that let us move on, and play wonderful music together where tuning is the least of our worries!

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    Default Re: Tuning Mandolin without a tuner

    Tonear, you probably know this, but just to be sure, a perfect fifth is at the seventh fret. So the G string, 7th fret should be the same as the open D; 7th fret D string should be the same as the open A, and 7th fret A is the same as open E.

    Another way that G on the first string, 3rd fret could be "sour" is if each string is a bit sharp. The error could get worse string by string resulting in the low G and high G sounding a bit off.
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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tuning Mandolin without a tuner

    From rcc56 - " I use an A 440 tuning fork.". I used a G tuning fork (G above middle C on a piano = 391.995Hz) to tune my banjo. The only problem with tuning a banjo (yes - it can be done !!) ,especially if you have 'D-tuners', is that tuning one or both 'down' to the lower note,throws all the other notes out, so tuning is always a compromise. However after 50 years,you get used to it !,
    Ivan
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    Lebeda F-5 "Special".
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    Tokai - 'Tele-alike'.
    Ellis DeLuxe "A" style.

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    Adrian Minarovic
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    Default Re: Tuning Mandolin without a tuner

    Quote Originally Posted by Joey Anchors View Post
    I’ve never used a tuning fork and like the idea rather than using a clip-on tuner that requires a battery. (Which is what I’ve been using)
    In noisy environment the clip-on tuner is hard to beat even if you can tune without.
    Adrian

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    Still Picking and Sawing Jack Roberts's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tuning Mandolin without a tuner

    Quote Originally Posted by foldedpath View Post
    This is going to sound hostile I know, but I won't play with a band member or in a session where people aren't using digital tuners, so everyone is at least reasonably in tune with each other. ...
    We tried this, but I have lost digital tuners to borrowing by the lead guitarist (always) who forgot his!

    The most responsible guy in our band was the 12 string guitarist, who spent a long time at tuning before we started playing. Also, his instrument was very stable. He was like the oboe player in an orchestra. The rest of us were pretty good at tuning to his A string.

    Personally, I can't tune by ear that well anymore, as I am going deaf and I can't hear my own instrument unless I am in a dead quiet room, so I have to tune with a tuner nowadays.
    Ha, ha! keep time: how sour sweet music is,
    When time is broke and no proportion kept!
    --William Shakespeare

  29. #21
    Registered User GrooverMcTube's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tuning Mandolin without a tuner

    I'm a bit of a noob, but it seems to me that the harmonic at the 7th fret of a given string is the 5th of the open string, albeit an octave higher:


    String Fifth
    G D
    D A
    A E
    E B


    Thus, assuming your bridge is set correctly:

    The harmonic at the 7th fret of the G string (D) is equal to the harmonic at the 12th fret of the D string

    The harmonic at the 7th fret of the D string (A) is equal to the harmonic at the 12th fret of the A string

    The harmonic at the 7th fret of the A string (E) is equal to the harmonic at the 12th fret of the E string


    Or at least that's how it works on my mando...

  30. #22
    Registered User foldedpath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tuning Mandolin without a tuner

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Roberts View Post
    We tried this, but I have lost digital tuners to borrowing by the lead guitarist (always) who forgot his!

    The most responsible guy in our band was the 12 string guitarist, who spent a long time at tuning before we started playing. Also, his instrument was very stable. He was like the oboe player in an orchestra. The rest of us were pretty good at tuning to his A string.
    I should amend that statement about never playing with those who won't use digital tuners, because there is a convention in many Irish sessions for tuning to instruments that can't be adjusted, like free reeds. Usually a concertina "A" if there is a concertina player in the room.

    However, I'm fortunate in that all three of the Irish trad concertina players I know in this area are scrupulous about maintaining their instruments such that their "A" is at 440 Hz. Or near as dammit, so the guitar and mandolin players, and fiddlers can still use their digital tuners without adjusting the base frequency.

    Even the players of smallpipes and reelpipes in my area use digital tuners to get their chanters in tune. Although, sometimes that's a real fight against where the reeds start out, vs. warming up to room temperature.

    One of the reasons I decided to take up "Irish" flute instead of button box accordion, was because I knew a flute can be adjusted to A=400 and then blown into intonation with embouchure, whereas a box is a much fussier instrument. And my fiddler S.O. has a very good ear for intonation. If someone is off, she'll let 'ya know it.

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  32. #23
    Registered User Mandobart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tuning Mandolin without a tuner

    Anyone who grew up playing in school orchestra remembers tuning your A to the concertmaster's A, then tuning the remaining 5ths intervals by ear. Still a good skill to have. I don't know if this is still done in schools since the availability of fairly cheap decent electronic tuners.

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    Default Re: Tuning Mandolin without a tuner

    If I or my father had refused to play with anyone that tuned by ear I would never have learned, my father would never have played as would many of those we listen to today.

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    Registered User Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tuning Mandolin without a tuner

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Visentin View Post
    If you have a smart phone or a computer, lap top, or pad, you can get a tuner app for free. I have found these to be very accurate.
    Isn't that using a tuner?

    It's not tuning by ear, but it might solve the problem. Tonear, does it answer your question?

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