New Mandolin Player... Have a Loar 520, is a Kentucky 800 Better?

[cap217]

I am a month into the mandolin. I have been playing guitar for 20 years though and like the better stuff and vintage guitars. I bought a Loar 520 and its good for sure but will a Kentucky 800 be a big upgrade to me in any way? Or does it make more sense to just splurge for something a lot nicer?

I am into Nickel Creek playing and thats really the sole reason I started learning mandolin.

I ask here and joined because I dont know a single mandolin player. My circle is drums and guitar. And at the stores nobody really know much either. So I am stuck trying to learn about this on my own.

[Phil Goodson]

Welcome cap. You've come to the right place for info and opinions.
You could spend months just reading results of the search engine on this site, looking for various subjects.

To your immediate point, excluding just personal preference, I think you'd likely need to jump to the $1500-2000 range (depending on new or used) to expect a huge upgrade. If you peruse the forum classifieds, you often will find great values in previously owned instruments in that range IMHO.

I expect you'll soon have many more opinions to read on this thread.

[Jim Parriott]

I'm 2 1/2 years into the journey, coming from guitar, like you. Nickel Creek was also an inspiration. Just love this instrument, as I'm sure you will. My advice to you would be to dig into this website - it's wonderful and you'll learn a lot. There are also many good places online for instruction. As far as instruments go -- I think you should play your 520 for a year. Don't rush a new mandolin. By then, you'll have a really good idea of what you want and what the options are. At that point, get to a reputable shop with a lot of mandolins and play a bunch. Then spend some money.

[ImTheMan_do]

I don't have any experience with either of these mandolins, but I say put quite a bit more time into getting good and loving playing mandolin. Really get technique and such down so when you are ready to buy a new instrument you can get the most out of it. Also, the loar you have seems like a quite fine mandolin, so I say if you step it up, take a big step. The kentucky, I think, would be a step up bot not incredibly different. But eh, what do I know haha. Not much. Just thinking that if you can get yourself to love the playing itself, which I'm sure you will, that taking a step up in the quality of the instrument would be much sweeter than just jumping to that. I don't know, just thoughts.

[mandolin tony]

I have an older Loar 600 & a Kentucky 800. I like the neck profile on the Kentucky much better than the Loar. is the 520 similar to the 600 ?, I have no clue.

[pheffernan]

I am a month into the mandolin. I have been playing guitar for 20 years though and like the better stuff and vintage guitars. I bought a Loar 520 and its good for sure but will a Kentucky 800 be a big upgrade to me in any way? Or does it make more sense to just splurge for something a lot nicer?

As long as the other bills are getting paid, I am all in favor of an upgrade. I just suspect that another midrange import isn’t it. In what I imagine to be that price range, I’d be looking for something like a Flatiron A5 or, since you like vintage, maybe an old Gibson oval.

[UsuallyPickin]

Hmmmm …. I do prefer Kentucky to The Loar instruments. In truth at this point in learning how to play a mandolin the difference between the two instruments won't show up much in your playing. If you didn't have an instrument yet I would definitely recommend the Kentucky. Take some time , play a lot of other mandolins , work on your own skills and save some more money. Think well north of 1,000.00$ . In a year or even two you will also have decided what tone you want from your instrument. Then it will be time to jump deeper in the pool..... R/

[Trich]

I'm in the camp of play it for a while. Give yourself 6-12 months and then upgrade if you want to. I will mention since no one has yet, a proper setup by a luthier even on a brand new instrument may help you alot as far as sound and playability is concerned. Also explore different picks. Welcome to the cafe and the world of mandolin!

[SincereCorgi]

Between those two, I have found Kentucky instruments to be more consistent- the Loar had some really rough quality control issues for a while, but the good ones can sound good.

"Vintage" mandolins are different from guitar, most players are very wary of major label mandolins built between the '30s and the late '80s, and way fewer mandolins than guitars were built. There's not as much out there and the very desirable stuff is old and expensive. I would play and read for a while before jumping on one.

My top picks if you *have* to get an upgrade at once and want a Nickel Creek-type F-hole mandolin: used Collings MT, your Kentucky 800 or 900, or an Eastman 305.

[Br1ck]

IMHO, if you have to have an F style, you could get a nice bump with a Kentucky master series. But I have proven to myself that for me, spending a lot more on a Northfield F 5S would be worth it. Now if you shop the used A style market, $1200-$1800 would buy you a nice mandolin.

I'm coming from the perspective of a guitar player too, whose ear is quite jaded. I bought an Eastman MD 505 that lasted three months, not because it was bad, but because I started playing $2500 A styles. So don't do that. Just don't. You will probably be happy with your Loar a lot longer that way.

I have noticed a few F styles lately down as low as $2000 though that are most likely nice mandolins. But really, don't check out the classifieds.

I believe the Collings F is an MF, go directly to spending $4500, and the Kentucky F would be the 1000 to get into the master series, And the Eastman would be the 315, a probable lateral move. The middle ground here would be a used Kentucky 1000 and up. But check specks if radius fretboard is important to you.

[Folkmusician.com]

I just happen to be the worlds largest seller of the LM-520... The KM-800 is an upgrade, but I agree with everyone else here. It is not enough to justify buying another mandolin that you will still want to upgrade. Hold off and make a larger jump.

[RickPick]

Much depends on your individual Loar 520. I have one, and I like it very much. It served me well for BG, although it wasn't exactly a cannon. After a few years of playing and -- literally -- selling the family farm, I bought a Weber Fern that sounds better. But it cost 15 times what the Loar had cost me. So unless you didn't get so lucky with your individual Loar 520, I'd suggest that you learn to love it, play it like crazy, and one of these days, you might want to make a significant upgrade. But why rush?

[cap217]

I'm in the camp of play it for a while. Give yourself 6-12 months and then upgrade if you want to. I will mention since no one has yet, a proper setup by a luthier even on a brand new instrument may help you alot as far as sound and playability is concerned. Also explore different picks. Welcome to the cafe and the world of mandolin!

I took it to a tech who looked it over after I set it up. I do setups on my guitars so I figured Id learn on this mandolin. He said the setup was good and that the quality and bridge and nut were really good on this guitar. I also started using Wegman 140 picks and ordered some blue chips so I think Ill find a pick that I like.

I am learning this a lot faster than I thought I would. Guitar is still my main instrument but I can play a lot of Nickle Creek by ear now which is impressive to me. Of course it isnt super fast or as clean as Id like but for a month in, I am happy.

Id really like to stick with F styles. If the Kentucky was a real upgrade Id consider it but if its a lateral move and I like my Loar then I will stick with it. I guess Ill play it and if I am still interested in a year, maybe get a Gibson and spend a good amount.

[cap217]

I just happen to be the worlds largest seller of the LM-520... The KM-800 is an upgrade, but I agree with everyone else here. It is not enough to justify buying another mandolin that you will still want to upgrade. Hold off and make a larger jump.

Thanks. Just looked at your site. What does something like the 700 v 520 offer? Is it cosmetics or is it structural with bracing? I know inlaid scroll, binding, flamed wood but is it a "better" mandolin besides cosmetics? I would think that wood grade, bridge material, tuners, bracing would be the key in a step up. But again, this is coming from a guitar guy.

[almeriastrings]

Seriously, you would be better off avoiding small 'incremental' upgrades.

The next logical step up would be to something like a Kentucky KM900/950 or (F-style) KM1000/KM1050. You'd hear (and feel) a significant difference there. Alternately, look in the classifieds. Some of the smaller, independent-builder stuff surfaces regularly in the $1-$2K range. You can find some impressively nice instruments like that.... leagues ahead of the likes of 'The Loar' (any model).

[Johnny60]

Have only played a handful of The Loars, and even bought one from a dealer, sight unseen (apart from photos). Gotta say I’m not a fan - the necks have been like baseball bats on the few I’ve played, and the fit, finish and thick varnish runs have put me right off them. Kentucky and Eastman make much better instruments, from my experience, but Almeria Strings is right - go for a more significant upgrade if you can.

I understand that the The Loar necks are slimmer now, so your experience may be different from mine.

[itstooloudMike]

I am also a long-time guitarist that has become a mandolin player over the last 10 years. My suggestion is to stick with your Loar until you can move into a hand-made American mandolin. Right now, you are learning the mechanics of playing the mandolin, as you should. But as you get better, your ears will begin listening for tonal qualities that don't come easily from Pac-Rim mandolins in the sub $1500 price bracket. You will eventually want the tone you hear on great mandolin recordings, which usually comes from very high quality mandolins that start at over $2K. Do lots of research, and play as many good mandolins as you can get your hands on. If you are willing to consider an A-style, there are pro-level used instruments between $1500 and $2000. These will be significantly better than what you are playing now. Look for Gibson A-9, Flatiron Festival-A, Weber Bitteroot-A, or a Pava or Collings A-style. These will all provide pro-level tone with great playability. If you absolutely must have an F-style, you will be spending from $500 to $1000 additional. But the additional cost will not get you a better sounding or playing instrument. All you get is the aesthetics of the scroll. For some, that is important. For others, not worth the cost. There is really no question that if you stick with the mandolin, and aspire to sound like your influences, you will end up with an expensive mandolin. Making small jumps between now and then will probably just cost you unnecessary financial loss. When you are ready to move up, go for a pro-level American-made mandolin, and buy it used. In the long run, this could save you quite a bit of money.

[Folkmusician.com]

Thanks. Just looked at your site. What does something like the 700 v 520 offer? Is it cosmetics or is it structural with bracing? I know inlaid scroll, binding, flamed wood but is it a "better" mandolin besides cosmetics? I would think that wood grade, bridge material, tuners, bracing would be the key in a step up. But again, this is coming from a guitar guy.

In this case, it is not a hardware upgrade. Great tuners on both (Grover on the 520, Gotoh on the 700), they have the same tailpiece and the same bridge.

There are higher grades of wood used on the 700 and it is more ornate. The necks are not identical, but they are close enough to not be a factor. In the end, it just come down to tone. The LM-700 sounds fuller, more open, just better all around. Partly due to the better woods. Partly the finish. The 700 doesn't have tone bars. More than anything the carving is the factor.

Is it an upgrade? Yes. If you didn't have a 520, there are some good reasons to choose the LM-700. Already owning the 520, I would personally just stick with it. It isn't a bad mando at all.

[cap217]

Well this got me thinking to either stick with my 520 or upgrade to a km 1500. I guess then a gibson f5. Looking at 1500s now. Hope it’s worth the search.

[Br1ck]

Here's the deal. Let's say your 520 is a 3, a 1000 to 1500 series would be a 6. Would cost a chunk of change. The next step might be something like a Northfield which would be a 7 and cost you another grand, but the 6 to 7 is sweet. then someone puts a Gibson F9 or a Collings MF in your hands and you go from 7 to 7.5 and costs you another $1500, but that half a point is delicious . To get to 8 costs you another $3K cause you take a bunch of inlay and pretty wood in the package. Double that to get to 9 and double that to get to 9.5. No one has ever found a ten. A Loar is 9.8.

Gross over simplification for sure. Myself, I'm only prepared to go to 7.

The above was based on the one time I was able to play a bunch of mandolins all at one time at The Mandolin Store.

PS take a hard look at the Weber Gallatin that just showed in the classifieds, but don't think too long....

[cap217]

Here's the deal. Let's say your 520 is a 3, a 1000 to 1500 series would be a 6. Would cost a chunk of change. The next step might be something like a Northfield which would be a 7 and cost you another grand, but the 6 to 7 is sweet. then someone puts a Gibson F9 or a Collings MF in your hands and you go from 7 to 7.5 and costs you another $1500, but that half a point is delicious . To get to 8 costs you another $3K cause you take a bunch of inlay and pretty wood in the package. Double that to get to 9 and double that to get to 9.5. No one has ever found a ten. A Loar is 9.8.

Gross over simplification for sure. Myself, I'm only prepared to go to 7.

The above was based on the one time I was able to play a bunch of mandolins all at one time at The Mandolin Store.

PS take a hard look at the Weber Gallatin that just showed in the classifieds, but don't think too long....

Simple way of explaining but I follow. A 3 to 6 jump is the biggest one I could make then. I was researching and the km 1500 kept up with or was considered better by some vs a northfield so I think when you get to that point these 0.5 differences are all opinion. I am just looking for an upgrade and I guess one that would qualify my instument as “pro” or something a pro would think highly of. That would make me feel better and more confident about my playing. If I were new to stringed instruments, this would be a wasted exercise but I am used to high end guitars and just want my mandolin to be in the lower ranks of that category. The km 1500 seems to get me there. And a northfield is a consideration. Besides that, I’m waiting for a gibson but I’m far away from 5k used.

[Phil Goodson]

You keep coming back to the name "Gibson", and that's fine if that's what you like. Remember (or learn) that there are many kinds of "Gibson F-5" mandolins. Ferns, Master Models, distressed Master Models, Signature models, and I've probably left out a few others. Take your time, do your research, learn what you personally like in an instrument. Then you'll know what to buy when you're ready.

[cap217]

You keep coming back to the name "Gibson", and that's fine if that's what you like. Remember (or learn) that there are many kinds of "Gibson F-5" mandolins. Ferns, Master Models, distressed Master Models, Signature models, and I've probably left out a few others. Take your time, do your research, learn what you personally like in an instrument. Then you'll know what to buy when you're ready.

I understand there are many models but I dont know which Id be interested in so I dont specify. I just know that Gibson is where I want to end up. Its like in the guitar world, there are taylor guys and martin guys. I like martins... and gibsons. I know the name on the headstock doesnt equal quality or whatever but the name means something to me.


Back to the Kentucky 1500. I am reading a bunch about years and where it was made and how it holds value and fit and finish. I cant find a chart anywhere explaining the "good" v "less" ones. Id like to know if the newer ones are considered good quality? Looking at a 2012 and a 2017.

[UsuallyPickin]

Yeah ….. you are used to playing high end guitars. I get that . I am too. Just keep in mind that a carved top is a great deal more work than a flat top or a solid body. Think comparing high end archtop guitars to other model guitars. When you start talking about high end mandolin prices they are more in the neighborhood of the cost of a good vehicle. To get to a nine the price will be in the neighborhood of 10,000.00$, or up. Take a day trip or what ever you need to play and listen to a wide variety of mandolins. Or take your time and just see what you run into. Getting in a hurry is the fastest way to spend additional funds in the trading up game. Play some Bozeman factory Gibson instruments from the 80's or their kindred spirits the Flatiron mandolins from the same period. Good luck and play on! R/

[Relio]

I am a month into the mandolin. I have been playing guitar for 20 years though and like the better stuff and vintage guitars. I bought a Loar 520 and its good for sure but will a Kentucky 800 be a big upgrade to me in any way? Or does it make more sense to just splurge for something a lot nicer?

I am into Nickel Creek playing and thats really the sole reason I started learning mandolin.

I ask here and joined because I dont know a single mandolin player. My circle is drums and guitar. And at the stores nobody really know much either. So I am stuck trying to learn about this on my own.

Splurge on something a lot nicer! I have never played a Kentucky I liked. Buy a quality American made mandolin. I recommend saving up a little more and finding a Gibson A9 or even more and a Collings MT. Good luck in your search!