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Thread: What’s the hardest tune you can play on mandolin? (Or family)

  1. #51

    Default Re: What’s the hardest tune you can play on mandolin? (Or family)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gunter View Post
    In all seriousness, it’s all hard for me.
    Try Horse with no name... only two cords...

  2. #52
    The Amateur Mandolinist Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: What’s the hardest tune you can play on mandolin? (Or family)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nol View Post
    Try Horse with no name... only two cords...
    I play (after a fashion) Jack Danielson's reel, which is only two chords. Also, I recently recorded Chuck Berry's You Never Can Tell with acoustic guitar and mandolin (watch it here) which also has only two chords. I've never played Horse With No Name in my life, but it is a cool sounding tune when America plays it; who knows, I may try that one some day. But I can almost guarantee that it won't be easy for me, LOL.
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    rock in rôle Paul Statman's Avatar
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    Default Re: What’s the hardest tune you can play on mandolin? (Or family)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gunter View Post
    I've never played Horse With No Name in my life, but it is a cool sounding tune when America plays it; who knows, I may try that one some day. But I can almost guarantee that it won't be easy for me, LOL.
    Whether you think you can, or whether you think you can't - you're right!

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    The Amateur Mandolinist Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: What’s the hardest tune you can play on mandolin? (Or family)

    Quote Originally Posted by mandopixie View Post
    Whether you think you can, or whether you think you can't - you're right!
    Thanks for the encouragement, mandopixie. Maybe I should explain, I've been playing music I want to play for over 50 years, mostly on guitar, and only picked up mandolin a few years ago. When I say that I've never played A Horse With No Name, really it's because I've never been inclined to. But I'm not knocking the song, it does have a good, easy-going sort of groove when I hear it on the radio. Who knows, I may try it someday.

    Pretty much everything I've learned musically over the past 50 years has been hard. There are many things I can play maybe well enough to entertain people, and some of that is easy, but it was hard to get there. Learning to play a tune on the mandolin took me about 15 minutes the first time I picked one up, but it didn't sound very good, and everything I do or try to do now is hard to learn, or to polish, or to find a pleasing arrangement that suits me. But I am not saying that I can't play or that I think I can't play. I'm saying that, realistically, I'm not very good and I have to work at sounding better, and it's usually hard. I don't work at it nearly as much as I should, though that type of work is a joy when I do it.

    I agree 100% with your assessment: If you believe you can do it and you persevere in the attempt, you're likely to succeed. If you believe you can't do it, you've already mentally closed the doors on it.
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    rock in rôle Paul Statman's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Re: What’s the hardest tune you can play on mandolin? (Or family)

    Sounds like you're doing okay, Mark! It does get easier with time and practice, though - don't you find?

    "Never give up"!

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    The Amateur Mandolinist Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: What’s the hardest tune you can play on mandolin? (Or family)

    WWW.THEAMATEURMANDOLINIST.COM
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    Default Re: What’s the hardest tune you can play on mandolin? (Or family)

    The hardest ones that I can play up to speed are by Ronnie McCoury Baltimore Johnny and Quicksburg Rendezvous. No where near as clean as Ronnie picks of course. It always helps with difficult tunes to be warmed up, in the groove and have the right amount of beer. But that's just me.

    God bless ya'll with your Bach. I got over that when I was a kid taking piano lessons. I love listening to classical music on mandolin though so beautiful. What the instrument was designed to do.
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  11. #58

    Default Re: What’s the hardest tune you can play on mandolin? (Or family)

    Quote Originally Posted by mandopixie View Post
    ... It does get easier with time and practice, though - don't you find?
    Except... for me anyway, for each new tune learned, it often involves some new level of skill required to make the tune sound right.

    So I'm still having to work at things. (Been plinking around on stringed instruments since the age of 2 1/2 and that was a *long* time ago! Dinosaurs 'n' all... but then later as an adult I went for many years without playing at all, so still having to do some catch-up.)

    I seldom even bother learning 'easy' tunes anymore, instead I choose pieces that challenge me a little bit in some way, so that (a) I have something new to learn, and (b) I don't get bored.

    So for most everything I learn nowadays, the learning process still isn't a whole lot easier than it ever was, because the difficulty level gets higher as I go along.

    That is a choice, however. I personally enjoy the process.

    A side-effect of that approach, is that one's skill level gradually improves over time, a little bit at a time, and it's not "work" but more in the "fun" category.

    But each *next* new challenge/tune is still going to require a bit of effort to make it all work right. Then on to the next one after that, and so on.

    One gets to make actual music in the process, and occasionally some of it even still sounds ok years later. (Assuming that one records their efforts, as a learning tool.)

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    Default Re: What’s the hardest tune you can play on mandolin? (Or family)

    I suppose the exception to that last paragraph would be how some prominent rock guitarists do, maybe I'm misinterpreting their actions but it seems like they intentionally *exaggerate* the difficulty, with gratuitous high-up-the-neck fretboard gymnastics as if they're trying to wow non-musician audiences who see it and think, "OMG that person must be a *really* good musician because look at how difficult that looks!"
    Its kind of funny to see the same uber musician on his instructional video, where he is playing all these licks with a contented smile, graceful fingers, as if its as easy as drinking water.

    Its all an act.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

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    Default Re: What’s the hardest tune you can play on mandolin? (Or family)

    I seldom even bother learning 'easy' tunes anymore, instead I choose pieces that challenge me a little bit in some way, so that (a) I have something new to learn, and (b) I don't get bored.
    Some things are easier to learn than others, especially if you are well versed in the genre. Another Irish hornpipe is relatively easy to learn after having played so many Irish hornpipes in the past. The tradition helps fill in the gaps.

    But all that said, I do not, and have not, pursued anything for its difficulty (or ease), in a long time. And i think most of us are more or less like this, we pursue a tune because of how great or beautiful the tune is. We may differ on what is great or what is beautiful, but I believe most of us use some aesthetic criteria to motivate us, as opposed to difficulty or ease.

    A striking example or two (blasphemy warning). I won't spend time learning Brilliancy. I could spend a lot of energy and get it down reasonably well, but at the end of the day what do I have? A show off tune that is not all that pretty (to me), and is a signature tune of someone else. So those that know the tune will know I ain't no Sam Bush, and those that don't know the tune will say, wow what an athletic performance. Who is he trying to impress?

    Bill Monroe's Rawhide. is another example for the exact same reasons.

    Sam and Bill have done, IMO, much more musical, pretty, and inspiring music than this, and I would much rather pursue those. At least, if its difficult, in pursuit you are obtaining something beautiful.
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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: What’s the hardest tune you can play on mandolin? (Or family)

    (I would like to be able to replicate Etta James' phrasing/intonation/etc of "At Last" on the flute! Or maybe come close to Sandy Denny on some of her stuff. Capturing the vocal nuances of a great vocalist can be just as difficult as playing any high-speed barn-burner, imo)
    Getting Etta James' vocal style is a difficulty worth pursuing!!!! And that is where one can really perceive the expressive limits of the mandolin. A violin could come a lot closer. (Mind you, the expressive limits, and every other limit to the mandolin are so far from my ability that I might as well say the mandolin has infinite abilities. You can't measure the difference between unobtainable by me, and unobtainable even in theory.)

    I heard a master class by I think Isaac Stern. He talked about getting inspiration from vocal stylings, as opposed to only emulating great violinists. I think this is even more important with we mandolinners. There is a creeping sameness in our playing, that is IMO to me and YMMV, a sameness that is kind of off putting.
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    Default Re: What’s the hardest tune you can play on mandolin? (Or family)

    Some Chris Thile thing I learned a long time ago. I can't even remember the name of it. It's a real finger twister.

    I play Sam's brilliancy a lot too, but mostly because it's so damn fun, Thile stuff is harder for me.

    EDIT: Just looked it up: Bittersweet Reel.

  18. #63

    Default Re: What’s the hardest tune you can play on mandolin? (Or family)

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    ...But all that said, I do not, and have not, pursued anything for its difficulty (or ease), in a long time. And i think most of us are more or less like this, we pursue a tune because of how great or beautiful the tune is. We may differ on what is great or what is beautiful, but I believe most of us use some aesthetic criteria to motivate us, as opposed to difficulty or ease. ...
    I guess I didn't explain myself well enough. I wasn't referring to finger gymnastics or show-off stuff, but rather the intricacies (however that's spelled) & the nuance & detail and, most importantly to me, the expression. If the expression isn't right, even a physically simple tune won't sound good. That's what I meant by pursuing difficulty. It *is* all about the sound, I agree.

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    Mangler of Tunes OneChordTrick's Avatar
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    Default Re: What’s the hardest tune you can play on mandolin? (Or family)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nol View Post
    Try Horse with no name... only two cords...
    2 chords, that’s twice as hard as I can manage

    Been playing seriously for 18 months and I’ve almost mastered* “Callum’s Road”

    * meaning that a sympathetic listener wouldn’t cover their ears and would be able to identify the tune without looking at my score.
    Last edited by OneChordTrick; Nov-16-2018 at 7:59am. Reason: Typo

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    Default Re: What’s the hardest tune you can play on mandolin? (Or family)

    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaMatt View Post
    I was searching for an answer...your quote helped me answer.
    Tim O.- The High Road
    And Bryan Sutton- Whipper Snapper.
    Both were hard to learn, but are loads of fun to play.

    Also, anything in Bflat, not fun for me.
    I'm puzzled by this -- if the difficulty of a few songs ("anything" suggests several songs) lay in the key, and you actually learned those songs, wouldn't that mean that you overcame that difficulty? Because, as Paul Anastasio once said, there really are no difficult keys, only unfamiiar ones. Personally I admit that I'm not that much at home in the key of Db but that's simply because of lack of material. I do play one song in that key, "I saw mommy kissing Santa Claus", and I sometimes enjoy improvising a blues in just about any key.

    I never studied the mandolin as systematically as the guitar, which I approached
    key by key, Bb being the fourth (C,F,G,Bb,D, Eb, etc.) -- on mandolin, after ten years of guitar, I just started playing. I've written at least two originals in Bb, one of them using the open d a lot, and there are several tunes that work particularly well in that key, such as Sailor's Hornpipe (much easier than A!!), Slow Poke (Chilton Price), and Zambesi. Once you try these tunes you will understand why.

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    Default Re: What’s the hardest tune you can play on mandolin? (Or family)

    I don't know if hardest is the right word. Tunes fall into three categories for me:
    - those that are so easy I can play them as they are within a week (Give me something like Wise Maid any day)
    - those that I have to adapt to make them playable and then to practise a lot (Piper's Despair comes into mind)
    - those that are so unplayable that I give up after 1 hour (Tommy's Tarbukas is the last of those I can remember)
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    Default Re: What’s the hardest tune you can play on mandolin? (Or family)

    I have some I don't even bother trying - I can look at them and see that I am nowhere close to good enough to play them. So I put them away for another day (Years down the road....)

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    The Amateur Mandolinist Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: What’s the hardest tune you can play on mandolin? (Or family)

    Quote Originally Posted by LadysSolo View Post
    I have some I don't even bother trying - I can look at them and see that I am nowhere close to good enough to play them. So I put them away for another day (Years down the road....)
    You've hit on one of the things that makes this question (thread title question) impossible for me to answer. There are a lot of difficult pieces I've begun learning over the past few years and can't yet play on the mandolin, but the question is, "What's the hardest tune you can play on the mandolin."

    There are many, many tunes I can play on the mandolin and most of it was hard to learn, easy to play once learned, and very difficult to improve musically with all the nuance I desire. So there just is no honest way to answer this question as asked other than to say it's all been hard for me. I can honestly say that most days I can play nothing at all well on the mandolin, and occasionally I can play some things well, especially if having fun playing with others or performing for someone solo with no recording being made.
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    Default Re: What’s the hardest tune you can play on mandolin? (Or family)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Findley View Post
    As of right now, it’s Section 2 of Chen’s Standard Notation for the Tab-Addicted Mandolinist and Etude 1 of Aaron Weinstein’s Mandolin Chord Melody System.
    Yay!!

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    Default Re: What’s the hardest tune you can play on mandolin? (Or family)

    Some Chris Thile thing I learned a long time ago.
    EDIT: Just looked it up: Bittersweet Reel.
    Lovely tune, and yep, hard to pick. Another one is Wild Fiddler's Rag, from the pick of Alan Bibey. It is, as Jethro would say, a bear.

  29. #71
    rock in rôle Paul Statman's Avatar
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    Smile Re: Why is it the hardest tune you can play?

    I just read this in the comments section of an inspiration and gratitude site:

    I teach piano lessons. When Students bring in music that most people could not play because it is so hard, I realize to maintain my student's perception of me being able to teach them, I need to play this very hard music with ease. So I say to myself, this is easy. My brain speeds up and makes it easy. If I keep the point of view that it is hard, my brain slows down and actually makes it almost impossible to play. I often give my students very hard pieces of music and they cannot play it. I tell them to change their lie from, "This is hard", to "This is easy", and their brain speeds up and makes it easy, and then they can play the music with no problem. The music is really neither hard or easy. It is merely the meaning we give to it, which in turn controls the speed that our brain processes the notes.

    This 'changing the lie' I have been using for ten years and it works fantastically well for me and my students. I use this in many other situations and it works for me like real magic.
    - William Young

  30. #72

    Default Re: What’s the hardest tune you can play on mandolin? (Or family)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gunter View Post
    In all seriousness, it’s all hard for me.
    Ditto

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    Default Re: What’s the hardest tune you can play on mandolin? (Or family)

    I've been working for many moons on Scott Joplin's "The Entertainer" from Janet Davis's book. It has four parts, all with tricky syncopated rhythms. I have the first part, which most people know, committed to memory. I can play the second part, but haven't memorized it yet. As for the next two... ask me next year. Part of my issue is that I like to play everything in my repertoire without reading music, while others might be happy to read. So "The Entertainer" is the most difficult piece of music that I can't play. On the other hand, I can recall struggling through tunes bar by bar, trying to get the changes and timing, though I can play them reasonably well now. As the man said when someone exclaimed, That must be hard to play: "No, but it was hard to learn."
    Last edited by Ranald; Dec-09-2018 at 11:19pm. Reason: punctuation
    Robert Johnson's mother, describing blues musicians:
    "I never did have no trouble with him until he got big enough to be round with bigger boys and off from home. Then he used to follow all these harp blowers, mandoleen (sic) and guitar players."
    Lomax, Alan, The Land where The Blues Began, NY: Pantheon, 1993, p.14.

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    Default Re: What’s the hardest tune you can play on mandolin? (Or family)

    I found parts of Chorinho Pra Ele by Hermeto to be impossible.
    The "John Coltrane plays Choro" part
    Here it is with Hamilton, who does a great job of course.

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    Default Re: What’s the hardest tune you can play on mandolin? (Or family)

    Quote Originally Posted by Joel Glassman View Post
    I found parts of Chorinho Pra Ele by Hermeto to be impossible...
    I have never in my life been able to play as fast as Hamilton does in that video, on any instrument, but it might be worthwhile to learn that piece. We recently were playing Pascoal’s “Bebe” at our jazz workshop.

    What is the best source for the sheet music of that tune?
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