Removing a mandolin fret board

[Bernie Daniel]

There have been a few threads on this in the past but probably not as many as one would think given that it must be something performed on a fairly regular basis?

To cut to the chase here, most of the threads you find by just searching "remove fret board" describe modifications of a method which is probably (I'm guessing) the most common approach i.e., putting a hot clothing iron on the frets and then working a heated putty knife or some other flat blade between the neck and the fret board.

However. since most binding is plastic it probably means in most cases that removing the fret board binding first is highly recommended.

However, one modification that was described in one of the past threads called for laying a wet cloth (like a wash cloth) on the board and putting the hot iron on the cloth. This give two advantages according to the person who recommended it:
1) the water helps transfer the heat more evenly/effectively and 2) the damp cloth protects the binding and eliminates the need to remove it first.

The individual who posted this suggestion has not posted in the last 10 years so I assume he/she has left the board or no longer follows it?

Anyone out there use this approach to remove a mandolin fret board? The fret board I have in mind is one that is probably glued with either hot hide glue or titebond.

[ProfChris]

I've used it for ukulele fretboards, though damp not wet cloth. Works well, though you will probably still need the knife.

The board might well curl somewhat and need flattening before reuse. And it doesn't guarantee the binding will survive, though it improves the chances.

Don't go too hot - hand hot, ow but not ouch! is about right. And it can take several minutes for the heat to soak through to the join.

[ProfChris]

Forgot to say, if it's hide glue you really do need the moisture.

[HoGo]

I always set the iron to lowest setting. You don't need to scorch the wood or melt the binding to really weaken glue joint, just get it noticeably warm to touch and wait till the heat gets through the wood to the actual joint. Titebond (and most similar glues) softens well under 80-90 degrees C needed to melt/soften celluloid and when heated just enough you can often pretty much slice through the joint within 30 seconds before it cools. HHG will resist much more heat but you can use alcohol like violinmakers do for weakening HHG as well (but with extreme care on varnished instruments) and work slowly. Use of water or steam will make wood swell and after drying the board will never again fit into place exactly and you'll get overhanging edges of fingerboard or neck. I never use water if I want to put them back together. I only use steam on neck joints where no other method works as well.
And I always drill tiny holes for pins (I use broken drillbits) before I remove board so I can glue it back exactly.

[George R. Lane]

I always set the iron to lowest setting. You don't need to scorch the wood or melt the binding to really weaken glue joint, just get it noticeably warm to touch and wait till the heat gets through the wood to the actual joint. Titebond (and most similar glues) softens well under 80-90 degrees C needed to melt/soften celluloid.

Is that in centigrade or Fahrenheit? In Fahrenheit it would be 175 to 197 degrees.

[rcc56]

I use a 1" x 5" 25 watt heat blanket, available from MSC or McMaster-Carr, plugged into a Harbor Freight router control. The router control acts a temperature controller, and the heat blanket lets me put the heat exactly where I want it. Lay a couple of pipe fittings or other small heavy objects on top of the heat blanket to keep it in place. Heat slowly,-- applying too much heat too fast is what generally scorches fingerboards or melts bindings.

I keep a couple of pallet knives and spatulas handy, and figure out which ones work best as I go along. If the lifting tool does not slide fairly easily, let the work get a little warmer. You can dip the knives in water to keep them clean, but you don't want much water or the work will warp or the neighboring finish will be stained or damaged. A couple of drops is ok.

The same setup is also good for acoustic guitar bridges, and is becoming a standard practice. A 2" x 5" 50 watt blanket is good for guitar fingerboards.

LMI also sells blankets and heat controllers, but they charge double to triple what you would pay elsewhere.

[Skip Kelley]

Bernie, I have always used a cheap thrift store iron sitting directly on the frets or the fretboard. I haven't melted any binding yet.

[AndyV]

Is that in centigrade or Fahrenheit? In Fahrenheit it would be 175 to 197 degrees.

???

[pops1]

I use a 100 watt lightbulb in my bench light to heat the fingerboard. The dark board heats faster than the binding and haven't had a problem taking off both at once.

[AndyV]

I've used this on a Gold Tone and on a '67 Teisco. No idea what adhesives they used, but it worked really well. I Probably goes w/o saying, but go slow.

[Bernie Daniel]

Bernie, I have always used a cheap thrift store iron sitting directly on the frets or the fretboard. I haven't melted any binding yet.

Approximately what temperature do you use? Thanks!

[Bernie Daniel]

I use a 1" x 5" 25 watt heat blanket, available from MSC or McMaster-Carr, plugged into a Harbor Freight router control. The router control acts a temperature controller, and the heat blanket lets me put the heat exactly where I want it. Lay a couple of pipe fittings or other small heavy objects on top of the heat blanket to keep it in place. Heat slowly,-- applying too much heat too fast is what generally scorches fingerboards or melts bindings.

I keep a couple of pallet knives and spatulas handy, and figure out which ones work best as I go along. If the lifting tool does not slide fairly easily, let the work get a little warmer. You can dip the knives in water to keep them clean, but you don't want much water or the work will warp or the neighboring finish will be stained or damaged. A couple of drops is ok.

The same setup is also good for acoustic guitar bridges, and is becoming a standard practice. A 2" x 5" 50 watt blanket is good for guitar fingerboards.

LMI also sells blankets and heat controllers, but they charge double to triple what you would pay elsewhere.

Thanks! Who is MSC please?

[bpatrick]

I removed a fingerboard held down with titebond a few months ago. I built the mandolin 10 years ago and was not happy with the neck angle - first step remove the fingerboard. I used an iron set on a medium setting for about 15 minutes? When the fingerboard was a little too hot to comfortably touch for any length of time, I carefully worked a putty knife between the fingerboard and the extender. From there, I slowly worked it down the neck until it came loose. I had previously pinned the neck at the 2nd and 10 frets. I used the same safety pins and locations when I regaled the neck later. The second gluing was with HHG. The ivoroid binding survived without any problems. I dinged the extender a bit when starting with the putty knife, but I replaced the extender as part of the reset.

[Bernie Daniel]

Thanks a lot to all who replied -- lots of good advice and also a lot of general agreement it seems.

The consensus seems to be gentle heat applied over a longer period of time thus allowing the glue to be heated while not damaging the binding. Water if used should be used carefully and sparingly.

I guess the frets serve to keep the bottom of the iron from touching the binding and also serve to conduct heat into the wood.

When I do the removal I am going to attempt to measure the iron surface temperature needed to get the job done.

[Bernie Daniel]

I removed a fingerboard held down with titebond a few months ago. I built the mandolin 10 years ago and was not happy with the neck angle - first step remove the fingerboard. I used an iron set on a medium setting for about 15 minutes? When the fingerboard was a little too hot to comfortably touch for any length of time, I carefully worked a putty knife between the fingerboard and the extender. From there, I slowly worked it down the neck until it came loose. I had previously pinned the neck at the 2nd and 10 frets. I used the same safety pins and locations when I regaled the neck later. The second gluing was with HHG. The ivoroid binding survived without any problems. I dinged the extender a bit when starting with the putty knife, but I replaced the extender as part of the reset.
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Nice and thanks for the pics. One picture tells a thousand words for sure and one picture also holds your hand!

[Bernie Daniel]

I use a 100 watt lightbulb in my bench light to heat the fingerboard. The dark board heats faster than the binding and haven't had a problem taking off both at once.

Thanks! So it is like a goose neck lamp and you just bend it close to the fret board? How long does it take to get heat through the wood to the glue using that arrangement?

[rcc56]

Thanks! Who is MSC please?

MSC Industrial Supply. www.mscdirect.com. One of the largest industrial suppliers in the US, along with McMaster-Carr. Their catalogs are huge. They will both take small orders from individuals.

[sunburst]

Bernie, I have always used a cheap thrift store iron sitting directly on the frets or the fretboard. I haven't melted any binding yet.

Same here.

[rcc56]

Heat blankets are not a requirement, but they sure are nice. You don't need shields, you can get great temperature control, and you can get the heat exactly where you want it.

Last time I used an iron was to pull the board on a Roy Smeck guitar I was converting. I got some blistering of the finish on the back of the neck, but in that case it wasn't a bad thing, because the neck had to be recarved to tolerable dimensions anyway. The blistered areas gave me a pretty good idea of how the original finish was done, and it enabled me to get a good color match when I re-sprayed. But it also gave me fear of collateral damage with the iron, and I've been using the blankets ever since.

BTW, when I ordered my last blanket from McMaster-Carr, I also bought an 18" precision straightedge at a very reasonable price. Next time I order, I'll get a 24". And you don't have to buy the highest grade, the medium grade is accurate enough for lutherie.

Also, 3 thumbs up on drilling for locating pins before you pull a board. This is an ancient idea, but many people don't know about it.

[Bernie Daniel]

Heat blankets are not a requirement, but they sure are nice. You don't need shields, you can get great temperature control, and you can get the heat exactly where you want it.

Last time I used an iron was to pull the board on a Roy Smeck guitar I was converting. I got some blistering of the finish on the back of the neck, but in that case it wasn't a bad thing, because the neck had to be recarved to tolerable dimensions anyway. The blistered areas gave me a pretty good idea of how the original finish was done, and it enabled me to get a good color match when I re-sprayed. But it also gave me fear of collateral damage with the iron, and I've been using the blankets ever since.

BTW, when I ordered my last blanket from McMaster-Carr, I also bought an 18" precision straightedge at a very reasonable price. Next time I order, I'll get a 24". And you don't have to buy the highest grade, the medium grade is accurate enough for lutherie.

Also, 3 thumbs up on drilling for locating pins before you pull a board. This is an ancient idea, but many people don't know about it.

Good thoughts!

Do you happen to know what temperature you use with the heat blanket?

I guess for drilling alignment holes in the fret board you just use two of the fret position markers?

[Skip Kelley]

Approximately what temperature do you use? Thanks!

Bernie, I’m sorry I left that out! The temperature setting is a little more than medium.

[pops1]

Thanks! So it is like a goose neck lamp and you just bend it close to the fret board? How long does it take to get heat through the wood to the glue using that arrangement?

Bernie, I use my bench lights. They are not goose neck, but moveable and can be positioned where I want them. I take out the bulb I usually use and put in a 100 watt. A goose neck would work tho. I have different bench lamps and they work differently as the bulb sits deeper in some and one has an aluminum reflector. I get the bulbs close and monitor the heat by touching the board. Same thing applies as with the iron and blanket hot, but not too hot. It can burn the wood just like anything hot left too long or to hot so it has to be monitored. I have used a blanket, and made a board to press the blanket over the frets to the fingerboard so it would actually heat the fingerboard with out heating the frets as much, but the light works well and I rarely use the blanket. Once hot and you can start lifting the board I move the light up heating the next area, it is quicker heating the board as you go than in the beginning so keep an eye, or a finger, on the heat. I will most times move the light away to feel how hot the board is which gives the board some heat relief on top and let's it soak in as it needs to be hot all the way thru without being too hot on top. Same principal with all the heating devices.

[sunburst]

I guess for drilling alignment holes in the fret board you just use two of the fret position markers?

I pull two frets and drill (1 mm) holes right in the fret slots. I use long brass pins to align during gluing, then pull them out after the glue dries. (No pins to damage tools for the next guy.)

[rcc56]

I pull two frets and drill (1 mm) holes right in the fret slots. I use long brass pins to align during gluing, then pull them out after the glue dries. (No pins to damage tools for the next guy.)

I've done it both ways. Both ways work well. My choice depends on the nature of the individual job and my mood that day.

The last one that needed a new board, I pre-fitted a couple of dots but didn't glue them. Then I pinned through the dot cavities and glued the inlays later. The last one where I re-used the original board, I went through the fret slots.

I pin flat top guitar bridges through the saddle slot. Somebody took issue with that, but people have been doing it that way for 50 years and I've never heard of it creating a problem. Like John said above, use long pins and pull them out afterwards.

[Bernie Daniel]

Thanks to all the participants I think this thread is a nice little primer on how to get a mandolin fret board off. I expect to remove one in a few weeks and I'll take some pics as I go. Actually I have taken a couple of guitar boards and a mandocello board off over the years and they went well but this will be the first mandolin board I've attempted. Thanks again to all who posted!