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  1. #26
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    Default Re: Bluegrass Guitar

    I too thought you were joking to a certain extent. Nevertheless someone just starting may not have realized that, so I responded as I did. You are right that some people get it with no trouble and some have to work at it, but a newbie probably wouldn't know if he got it or not and as you said we could discuss it till the cows came home and not resolve it. If the newbie is asking the question he is on the right track and seems to realize that he needs to learn. Someone that knows needs to hear him and offer suggestion or fell him that as far as rhythm goes he's got it so move on but I still say that especially guitar most of the time and of most importance is the drive in the rhythm.

  2. #27

    Default Re: Bluegrass Guitar

    Quote Originally Posted by UsuallyPickin View Post
    Bottom line you need good timing, the ability to change chords quickly and understand the use of a capo. The keys of G and C are where you need to start working.
    Thanks UP for mentioning the use of the capo. Once you "get it" in the keys of G, C (and I would add D) using a capo will allow you to play in any other key. The jams I attend generally have too many guitarists (sigh) and they all play out of G chord position but move their capos to play in other keys (capo 2 for key of A, capo 3 for key of Bb, capo 4 for key of B, etc.). Excursions to keys other than G are infrequent at these jams so most of the guitarists can get by with very limited chord vocabularies and use of a capo.

    Len B.
    Clearwater, FL

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    Default Re: Bluegrass Guitar

    Quote Originally Posted by Josh Levine View Post
    Artist works has a free guitar 101 video class, then once you complete that you can pay to do Brian Sutton’s Bluegrass a guitar class which is excellent.
    I looked on the site, but couldn't find the Free Guitar 101 video class. Any idea if it is still available?

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by UsuallyPickin View Post
    A lot of good answers here. Bottom line you need good timing, the ability to change chords quickly and understand the use of a capo. Alternate the bass , the lower strings in a chord form, and learn to walk / play a bass line that moves from chord to chord. The keys of G and C are where you need to start working. I recommend listening to Doc Watson ….. one of the best flat pickers ever without a doubt his rhythm playing was always in the pocket and usually easy to hear and learn from. When you are ready for it https://www.homespun.com/shop/product/docs-guitar/ R/
    Would say look into this after I get down some rhythm? Or start out with this?

  5. #30
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    Default Re: Bluegrass Guitar

    I appreciate you all replying and giving me all this advice. I was happy to see so many replies. Can anyone recommend a good song to practice along to? Like I mentioned I haven't played in about ten years so I am rusty and want to start off on the right foot as they say. I will hope to practice for at least fifteen minutes a day I can. I greatly appreciate the sage wisdom!

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    Well …. Work on your playing rhythm and chord changes before you start listening to Doc Watson. Insofar as songs are concerned I am going to make an odd suggestion. Learn Don't Think Twice by Bob Dylan in both the keys of C and G. That particular song uses major, minor and dominant seventh chords. Those chords are what you will be using to learn to play 'grass. You can start listening to Doc Watson and another recommendation Norman Blake on YouTube for free. Both have Homespun courses you can look into when you get some playing under your belt. Lastly, the key of D was mentioned by Len12 and yes when you get through G and C look into D. The reason I didn't suggest it in my original post was because the key of D is easily played using C with a capo on the second fret. D played open has a very different tone and is worth learning to play in. It also allows capo access to the keys of E and F. When using a capo IMO it is best to use it on the first three frets of a guitar. But then there are always exceptions …. George Harrison's Here Comes the Sun is played with a capo on the seventh fret.... one of my favorite songs. Play On... R/
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    Default Re: Bluegrass Guitar

    I dig Dylan, but I don't know how to play that song. I am not familiar with some of those chords and playing in different keys. Do you know a the TAB for that song or can recommend a video I can learn to play it from?

    I enjoy "Jimmy Brown the Newsboy" from Norman Blake. I need to listen to more stuff by him and Doc for sure.

    I appreciate you helping me along. As well as the other pickers on here!

  8. #33

    Default Re: Bluegrass Guitar

    I am going to disagree about Don't Think Twice. It is a great song but it has a lot of chord changes. I would recommend something with fewer changes in G or C to get the right hand down. Chords are chords but the right hand is what makes a bluegrass guitarist.(or mando player for that matter)

    Something with a fairly repetitive simple set of chord changes like Sunny Side of the Mountain or Wabash Cannonball. Either can be played out of G chord shapes, capoed to the appropriate position as G, C, D in order. You can work on hitting the bass notes assertively, brushing the chord strum lightly, timing and bass walks without having to remember a bunch of chord changes. Bury Me Beneath the Willow is a nice song, not played too fast with straightforward changes, not quite as repetitive as the other two, that can sound nice in C or G and has a lot of room to evolve playing techniques; adding melody notes, different runs, cross picking and altering chord progressions for color as you learn.

    Norman Blake is a wonderful player and one of my heroes but not a good place to start because his right hand is fairly complex. Playing like him is a good place to end up but suited to solo or duet playing and really busy for a jam or bluegrass band. Jimmy Brown is a nice song to start with Carter Style once you have fundamentals working.

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    Default Re: Bluegrass Guitar

    Quote Originally Posted by lenf12 View Post
    Thanks UP for mentioning the use of the capo. Once you "get it" in the keys of G, C (and I would add D) using a capo will allow you to play in any other key. The jams I attend generally have too many guitarists (sigh) and they all play out of G chord position but move their capos to play in other keys (capo 2 for key of A, capo 3 for key of Bb, capo 4 for key of B, etc.). Excursions to keys other than G are infrequent at these jams so most of the guitarists can get by with very limited chord vocabularies and use of a capo.

    Len B.
    Clearwater, FL
    I would add A and E. Which, inicidentally, gives you three possibilities för the key of F: E forms (for a bluesy sound), D forms (more typically Bluegrass), and C forms (for a Carter Family sound). And there is at least one BG standard in F that is best played without a capo - Lonesome Moonlight Waltz.

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    Default Re: Bluegrass Guitar

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gunter View Post



    You can keep time playing bass notes on a guitar using your bare thumb, or a thumbpick like Lester Flat did, or using a flat pick like most guitar players do. Thumbpicking is a technique, it's also called finger-picking, fingerstyle, Travis-picking, etc. but Kentucky Thumbpicking emphasizes a bass pattern played with the thumb akin to Piedmont style blues. That type of picking influenced early country and bluegrass a great deal. It originated in blues music, was developed by many people in blues and country music, like Merle Travis, Chet Atkins, Lester Flat, and others and has a lively following today in blues, folk, country and bluegrass music. Lester Flat had, I think, a profound influence on bluegrass, BUT thumbpicking is not necessary, and maybe not even desirable for many in bluegrass today, as sblock has pointed out.

    IMO, if you know your way around the guitar, you can learn a lot just by watching, listening to and emulating players you admire - but it's always a good idea to pick up an instructional course or find a local teacher, if you're totally lost on where to begin.

    That's a bit confusing. Lester Flatt certainly played BG backup with a thumbpick but he never played the fingerstyle lead that you refer to as thumbpicking.

  11. #36
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    Default Re: Bluegrass Guitar

    Could be confusing Ralph, but not inaccurate. In that post I was simply telling what "thumbpicking" refers to, the OP asked a question about it. No, Lester did not play fingerpicked melody lines - but by the same token, his playing was informed by players who did. The line of influence was: Arnold Schultz (and others) > Charlie Monroe > Lester Flatt

    "Kentucky Thumbpicking" as a terminology encompasses both rhythm playing (using thumb picking & brushing with index or other fingers) and full on fingerpicking with thumb on bass and fingers on melody. In fact, Lester Flatt is a very good example of the rhythm technique, and Merle Travis is a very good example of the full-on rhythm + melody technique. I might add that the thumb pickers were not "doing what the flat pickers do", it is more likely the opposite, that the flat pickers' alternating bass line playing was informed by the thumb pickers.

    Thank you for getting off-topic with this allowing me to clarify. I'd love to discuss this stuff in depth, but have withheld adding more to this thread, since I realized it's really not on point for the OP, and just opens a can of worms.
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  12. #37

    Default Re: Bluegrass Guitar

    Look into the Flatpicking Essential series. It's a wonderful resource and in my opinion is the best educational tool to learn bluegrass guitar (a lot of the material also applies to mandolin). I recommend purchasing volume 1, and I be you will agree.

  13. #38

    Default Re: Bluegrass Guitar

    Quote Originally Posted by "G" View Post
    I looked on the site, but couldn't find the Free Guitar 101 video class. Any idea if it is still available?
    I don't know about the free class but I highly recommend artistworks for beginners. The ability to submit a video of your playing and have Bryan Sutton give you feedback and prevent the formation of bad habits is priceless. There is an entire curriculum you can follow and make progress whenever you want.

  14. #39

    Default Re: Bluegrass Guitar

    Get a guitar
    Learn to tune it
    Learn some chords
    Pick up a flat pick
    Start strumming along with records
    Learn a few simple bass runs

    There ya go...

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    Default Re: Bluegrass Guitar

    Quote Originally Posted by CarlM View Post
    I am going to disagree about Don't Think Twice. It is a great song but it has a lot of chord changes. I would recommend something with fewer changes in G or C to get the right hand down. Chords are chords but the right hand is what makes a bluegrass guitarist.(or mando player for that matter)

    Something with a fairly repetitive simple set of chord changes like Sunny Side of the Mountain or Wabash Cannonball. Either can be played out of G chord shapes, capoed to the appropriate position as G, C, D in order. You can work on hitting the bass notes assertively, brushing the chord strum lightly, timing and bass walks without having to remember a bunch of chord changes. Bury Me Beneath the Willow is a nice song, not played too fast with straightforward changes, not quite as repetitive as the other two, that can sound nice in C or G and has a lot of room to evolve playing techniques; adding melody notes, different runs, cross picking and altering chord progressions for color as you learn.

    Norman Blake is a wonderful player and one of my heroes but not a good place to start because his right hand is fairly complex. Playing like him is a good place to end up but suited to solo or duet playing and really busy for a jam or bluegrass band. Jimmy Brown is a nice song to start with Carter Style once you have fundamentals working.
    What exactly do you mean by chord shapes is that the same as playing the key of (Key of G)? Do you know of a good Youtube video to learn those songs or something like that? I really would like to learn Bury Me Beneath the Willow!!

    I hope I don't seem like a total newbie, I want to learn so I am asking questions. I appreciate your feedback!
    Last edited by "G"; Aug-17-2018 at 8:09pm.

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    Default Re: Bluegrass Guitar

    Quote Originally Posted by Relio View Post
    Look into the Flatpicking Essential series. It's a wonderful resource and in my opinion is the best educational tool to learn bluegrass guitar (a lot of the material also applies to mandolin). I recommend purchasing volume 1, and I be you will agree.
    Is that the series from Homespun?

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    Default Re: Bluegrass Guitar

    Quote Originally Posted by dadsaster View Post
    I don't know about the free class but I highly recommend artistworks for beginners. The ability to submit a video of your playing and have Bryan Sutton give you feedback and prevent the formation of bad habits is priceless. There is an entire curriculum you can follow and make progress whenever you want.
    Wow that is pretty rad! Is that the beginner bluegrass class?

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    Default Re: Bluegrass Guitar

    Quote Originally Posted by CarlM View Post
    Learn the boom-chick strum and get it down more than solid. Make sure your bass notes are strong and emphasized and the strum is just a light brush on two or three strings. Bluegrass guitar is mostly rhythm though most guys work more on lead.

    Learn the g-run. Bob Black once told me that the g-run is what makes a bluegrass guitarist and the best nail it every time. The tune below is on Del and Dawg live and the intro explains a bunch of g-runs, though I could not find the intro on youtube. A lot of instrumental breaks and leads in bluegrass are based on the g-run in different keys. The Del and Dawg Live cd could be a primer on how to play bluegrass guitar. It has the guitar up front and not a lot of clutter.

    Modern flatpickers do a lot of lead and a lot more complicated rhythm. A lot of guitarists make the mistake of trying to start with that stuff before getting the pick and brush down. In a band or jam setting simpler strums are better. The Rice strums can muddy up the mix badly unless you are as good as Rice at it. Rice himself is a master rhythm player and his stuff with the bluegrass album band shows it.

    Start learning to crosspick. That usually takes a couple of years, or more, to get down and longer to integrate into your playing. Learn the alternating roll first.

    How can I lean the boom-chick strum ?

  19. #44
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    Default Re: Bluegrass Guitar

    Quote Originally Posted by "G" View Post
    How can I lean the boom-chick strum ?
    "Boom-chick" strum means keeping time to the beat playing a bass note (boom) followed by a strum of the treble strings (chick).

    I put "boom chick strum" into google and these videos popped up. The Homespun lessons and other lesson sites mentioned above will teach you this stuff in more depth, any basic guitar course for Bluegrass is going to show you in detail how to do this. I'm including these two videos from the search because they can answer your question. For more detail, or for bluegrass songs specifically, you'd do well to get with a teacher or buy one of the courses already mentioned.



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggzvAzeSs4Y



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l4b43NHwxs

    There may be other guitar beginners here who can offer more pertinent free videos for this. I'm an old codger who learned this stuff 50 years ago, and so I'm not familiar with many beginner guitar videos in this new internet age, these just came up in the search.
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  20. #45

    Default Re: Bluegrass Guitar

    Mark answered about the boom chick. When I talked about chord shapes I was referring to the name the chord would have with no capo. What looks like a G chord becomes an A chord with the capo on
    second fret. It has the shape of a G chord. There are several bury me beneath the willow lessons that come up on a YouTube search. I learned it in a Keith Yoder jam camp several years ago so I am not sure if one is better.

  21. #46

    Default Re: Bluegrass Guitar

    Get Bryan Sutton's Homespun video. It covers a lot of basic stuff, and important foundations for more complicated things.

    If you need some inspiration, watch the video of Bryan and Michael Daves doing "Way Downtown."

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    Default Re: Bluegrass Guitar

    It's important that you master the rest stroke. In accompaniment almost all bass notes are played with a down stroke. A rest stroke is a downstroke that comes to rest on the next higher string. That gives more power, sustain and clarity. If your bass note is followed by a chord you then can just let your pick continue through the higher strings. Then in time you will vary the rhythm, instead of just boom-chuck-boom-chuck, play things like boom-chuck-a-boom-a-diddle.

    It's a good thing to listen to recordings where you can really here all of the guitar, such as the Billy Strings-Don Julin duets (availabe on Spotify) or Bill Monroe's Bluegrass Ramble (also on Spotify), or the Monroe sessions featuring Bill Keith on banjo and Benny Williams on guitar, I've encountered many players who don't pay enough attention to the off-beat strokes because these are often felt, rather than heard, on records.

    Also I think it's a good idea to lisen to guitarists in other related genres, like Roy Harvey, Riley Puckett, and Doc Watson

  23. #48

    Default Re: Bluegrass Guitar

    Quote Originally Posted by "G" View Post
    Is that the series from Homespun?
    https://www.flatpick.com/product_p/2437.htm

  24. #49
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    Default Re: Bluegrass Guitar

    Hi G,
    I dove into bluegrass guitar 5+ years ago and am still loving it.
    I think your idea of starting with 'Bury Me Beneath the Willow' is the perfect bluegrass(BG) starting point, for several reasons. It's a very common, traditional, simple BG song, and is usually played at a moderate tempo. 3 chord songs comprise a huge portion of the BG songbook so there are tons to choose from - no need to get fancy right of the bat. Here are a couple of Youtube versions where you can watch what the guitar player is doing (don't mind the fancy pickin', just check out the chords!)->
    - In G: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKGu_H_SFBI
    - In C: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz-4sHpuVFg
    For what it's worth, I also took Artistworks/Bryan Sutton lessons for a time and they're superb, regardless of your playing level.

  25. #50
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    Default Re: Bluegrass Guitar

    Quote Originally Posted by ralph johansson View Post
    It's important that you master the rest stroke. In accompaniment almost all bass notes are played with a down stroke. A rest stroke is a downstroke that comes to rest on the next higher string. That gives more power, sustain and clarity. If your bass note is followed by a chord you then can just let your pick continue through the higher strings. Then in time you will vary the rhythm, instead of just boom-chuck-boom-chuck, play things like boom-chuck-a-boom-a-diddle.

    It's a good thing to listen to recordings where you can really here all of the guitar, such as the Billy Strings-Don Julin duets (availabe on Spotify) or Bill Monroe's Bluegrass Ramble (also on Spotify), or the Monroe sessions featuring Bill Keith on banjo and Benny Williams on guitar, I've encountered many players who don't pay enough attention to the off-beat strokes because these are often felt, rather than heard, on records.

    Also I think it's a good idea to lisen to guitarists in other related genres, like Roy Harvey, Riley Puckett, and Doc Watson
    Further suggestions for clearly audible backup: Tony Rice+ Ricky Skaggs, David Grisman+Del McCourey - both available on Spotify

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