Fern Loar F5 Attic Find

[William Smith]

That is my personal favorite of all I have played. If I had the $$$, I'd pair it up with the snakehead mandola for everything I'd ever need! Ok, maybee a snakehead L5 too....

Pretty soon I'll have a snakehead 1924 Tenor Lute to Mandola conversion, Gary Vessel is doing it for me as I had a really beat to almost death TL so they have a mandola body and I've heard they make a great mandola. Also heard they have the same internal graduations as a Loar H-5?

[Br1ck]

They are looking for a collector to buy it, not a player, hence the hands off approach. I mean, who wouldn't want a Loar with original strings?

[f5joe]

F-5 Joe...Are you sure it was only 20 years ago that Tut let you play the A-5...I didn`t know he had it then, but I don`t keep up with such things.....

Willie

I'd have to dig ....... it may have been slightly over 20 years ago. It was fairly soon before he sold it, as best I remember.

[j. condino]

Pretty soon I'll have a snakehead 1924 Tenor Lute to Mandola conversion, Gary Vessel is doing it for me as I had a really beat to almost death TL so they have a mandola body and I've heard they make a great mandola. Also heard they have the same internal graduations as a Loar H-5?

As far as I know, I have the only graduation map of the snakehead mandola in existence, 'hacked a couple of years ago when it first surfaced. You or Gary can call the shop and we'll nerd out on the details if it helps........

[Jeff Mando]

They are looking for a collector to buy it, not a player, hence the hands off approach. I mean, who wouldn't want a Loar with original strings?

I was at a major collector car show 25-30 years ago, and they had a pair of 1955 Ford Thunderbirds that were from a collection, neither car was ever used or driven any distance, each had LESS THAN 50 original miles (that's 50, NOT 50K!, OK?) and both cars had the original tires. In this case, I don't think anyone would want to buy them to actually use, just display, IMHO. I'm not sure if music people would feel the same about owning a Loar and not playing it???

[Timbofood]

They are looking for a collector to buy it, not a player, hence the hands off approach. I mean, who wouldn't want a Loar with original strings?

Like an original model T with factory oil!

[Timbofood]

I was at a major collector car show 25-30 years ago, and they had a pair of 1955 Ford Thunderbirds that were from a collection, neither car was ever used or driven any distance, each had LESS THAN 50 original miles (that's 50, NOT 50K!, OK?) and both cars had the original tires. In this case, I don't think anyone would want to buy them to actually use, just display, IMHO. I'm not sure if music people would feel the same about owning a Loar and not playing it???

Yep, collectors are an “interesting” bunch, I’d play it for a while at least, but, I would put fresh strings on it.

[testore]

It’s a GREAT mandolin!!

[Todd Bowman]

Would the binding really be that white if its been "untouched" My 1925 F4 has been touched, and its binding is yellow where the varnish has aged, and white(r) where the varnish is worn off (e.g., neck binding). Just curious?

[hank]

I contacted the sellers before the holidays and requested their assistance in a forum discussion with a photo of the original string packs in the case. I thanked him for the window into time for our discussion. He said it might be a while but would try to get a photo to me. Perhaps if he is following this thread he could post it here.

[Timbofood]

Really? String chronology is the point here? This is derailment at deadmans curve on the old 97!
Sorry Hank but, this is pretty far afield from the OP, case contents seems like an odd pursuit on this one but, I’m not in the market either way.

[RichieK]

Oddly, Feb 18 and March 31 ‘24 Loars do have white binding in those areas. Definitely unique.

[hank]

Omit my post. As you were.

[Jack-0]

I have a story:
I worked with a fellow in 1999-2000 in Silicon Valley (Cupertino), I cant remember his name-Richard something, maybe. When he was introduced to me I gave him my personal card with my illustration of a generic F5 mandolin on it. It was a conversation starter because when people would say "nice guitar, do you play?", I would reply "No, it's not a guitar-it's a 1923, Gibson F5 Master Model Mandolin, Lloyd Loar signature model". Then I would have to explain what that was and it was only a picture and not real etc, etc. Richard replied "Oh, I have one of those and several other old Gibson banjos and guitars that I am collecting for my retirement fund". My jaw dropped and I said "you have a 1923, Gibson F5 Master Model Mandolin, Lloyd Loar signature model??!!" He says, "Well technically no, because it's a 1924". I was still incredulous and asked him to bring it into work and show it to me. He said-no problem. Next day, there it was. In original case, with original green canvas zip up bag around the case. He said he was second owner and got it in 60's era from widow of original owner. Original owner rarely played it and it sat under the bed after he passed. It looked absolutely pristine to my eye, had original strings, and Virzi. Just as if it had sat under the bed all these years. I looked at the label but only remember March, 1924 and "The Signature" but not the date. I seem to remember some extra strings in the case-brand unknown. When I picked it up, I started to tune it and Richard immediately freaked and said "No tuning, I don't want any tension on it!" Embarrassed, I said no problem but at least take my picture holding it. Which he did with my old Sony 1megapixel digicam. It's very low res but I will see if I can find it and post it.
When I see these Loar find stories I always think of Richard and what ever happened to him and his collection. Is this the same one?

[William Smith]

A friend of mines Dad, said he knew a guy I want to say from Ohio that's Blind and he has a Loar F-5 that he plays all the time, I don't remember any names but knowing my friends Dad he's not one to BS! So there is one that more than likely isn't in the archives? Loars are still out there for sure! Just take a look at serial #'s and you can see the perhaps missing ones.

[Hendrik Ahrend]

Really? String chronology is the point here? This is derailment at deadmans curve on the old 97!
Sorry Hank but, this is pretty far afield from the OP, case contents seems like an odd pursuit on this one but, I’m not in the market either way.

Interesting derailment, keep going friends!

[Timbofood]

Hank’s post did jog the little grey cells a bit so, I started an”Odd case stuff” thread in equipment subheading.
It is an interesting tangent, I agree. It always strikes me funny how things can head off in so many directions, we are an interested bunch aren’t we?

[Jeff Mando]

When I picked it up, I started to tune it and Richard immediately freaked and said "No tuning, I don't want any tension on it!"

Another reason not to tune -- not hardly a Loar, but a couple years ago I picked up an Army Navy from eBay and when I got it, I unwrapped it and immediately started to tune the old rusty strings. Normal curiosity, I guess. Well, about three half-turns of the D-string tuner and the knob crumbles into three pieces! I was in shock -- why didn't I just wait? Why did I want to tune it so bad, habit? Why couldn't I have waited to check it out and lubricate the tuners first and put fresh strings on it? I just sat there, feeling really stupid!

[Hendrik Ahrend]

No kidding; I‘ve always enjoyed your posts, Timothy.

[Buck]

It's not unheard to sell rare/valuable vintage instruments without having even routine repair work done first. Some buyers are very concerned about original condition and they have their own preferences in repairmen and methods. Not having the work done before the sale allows the buyer complete control of that, and may drive the price higher than having the work done first. That's very different than something like a 1950's player grade instrument. I've seen prewar Martins sold as-is for that exact reason.

I know of at least one similar Loar example. A friend of mine who is a well know repairman/restoration expert on vintage Martins, up to and including prewar D-45's, bought an F-5 Loar that needed some minor work. Even though he had the skills to execute those repairs, he had Steve Gilchrist do the work. If he or his heirs decided to sell the mandolin, he wanted Gilchrist's name associated with the repairs rather than his own. When we start talking about six figure instruments, buyers are necessarily concerned about future value and how to protect their investment - even if they ultimately intend to play that investment.

[Timbofood]

Thanks Henry, I can be pretty cantankerous and very opinionated. The good thing is, I know that about myself!

[danb]

I've got gibson branded strings from the 1900s-1930s.. enough to string up a Loar. Some years ago we pooled together and measured the gauges on them, there is probably an old thread.. they were pretty close to D'Addario J74s

[GTison]

Jeff: "the knob crumbles into three pieces!"

I understand about the not tuning the investment instrument. Years ago now I was playing my friends 29 Fern. It was out of tune so I was trying to tune it. It was hard to turn, I knew the real shell key button looked weak. So, I told him it looked like it would break. He said go ahead tune it. I tried but the key fractured in two pieces. I felt terrible about that. He subsequently had a new set of Waverlys installed and put the old ones in the case. So, now it can be tuned anyway. I haven't seen it since. I wonder why?

[Paul Statman]

Can we also add the A5? I'd love to play a few notes on that one. But buying it?!?!? That's a rare instrument!

f-d

Beyond rare, being the one and only 'Griffith Loar' A-5, it is unique.

[mrmando]

Well, the San Jose Loar has made its way into the Cafe Classifieds now.