What has my MAS gotten me this time?

[MandoNina]

Well I've finally picked up another mandolin family instrument. Its been a couple of months since my last acquisition, the Mandolaika, so I've felt it's been about time for at least a month and a half now

Anyway it's a mandriola, but apart from that I know nothing about it.
Does anybody here happen to know anything about this particular mandriola?



Where it might be from, the make and model, it's playability and worth(in mint condition) what strings and string gauge to use etc?

Any information would be much appreciated.

Also, if anyone have any thoughts on how to approach mandriola as opposed to mandolin playing in general, I'm all ears.

[Ray(T)]

Have you seen this -

https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/s...erman-mandolin

Rumour has it that they usually come without a bridge

[rcc56]

Can't help you much, but I would suggest stringing it very lightly, and only after that crack has been repaired and the braces and glue joints have been inspected.

[MikeZito]

I love the checkerboard . . . .

[tonydxn]

This is a German mandriola, from the 1930's. Much of what is on this thread applies to yours too.

German makers often used quite complex geometrical patterns on the backs of their instruments, but I have never seen a checkerboard before (nor patterned sides, either). Highly unusual.

[MandoNina]

Yes that thread seems to cover a lot of my questions. Thanks guys!

In regards to strings, would .09-.042 suffice or should I go even lighter?

Also what are the options in regards to three-string courses? I saw in the other thread that "strung unison or with an octaved center string" was mentioned.

Yeah I love the checkerboard pattern on the back too!

[tonydxn]

Those gauges will be fine if you are only putting 8 strings on it. If you are putting on 12 strings, I would advise a bit lighter for the wound strings.

The German way to string this is with one string an octave lower in each course. It is not usually the centre string. The nut will tell you where to put the octave strings. This arrangement comes with intonation problems, so if you have a sensitive ear, better to use unison stringing (Italian style). You can find sound samples on YouTube if you want to hear what a mandriola sounds like.

[rcc56]

I would not go any heavier than .036" for the G and .022 for the D, especially considering the 12 string configuration.

[MandoNina]

Those gauges will be fine if you are only putting 8 strings on it. If you are putting on 12 strings, I would advise a bit lighter for the wound strings.

I think I have seen this being discussed somewhere here before and I didn't really get it then either...Why string a mandriola with only eight strings? Isn't 12 strings basically what makes it a mandriola? What am I missing here?

The German way to string this is with one string an octave lower in each course. It is not usually the centre string. The nut will tell you where to put the octave strings. This arrangement comes with intonation problems, so if you have a sensitive ear, better to use unison stringing (Italian style). You can find sound samples on YouTube if you want to hear what a mandriola sounds like.

Ok I see, but how come that arrangment comes with intonation problems? Shouldn't 3 perfectly tuned strings on a straight neck sound great up and down the board?

[B381]

MAS just got me into this....but it's exactly what I have been looking for for camping trips.

[tonydxn]

Ok I see, but how come that arrangment comes with intonation problems? Shouldn't 3 perfectly tuned strings on a straight neck sound great up and down the board?

Thick strings need more compensation than thin ones. If you have one thick and two thin strings on each course and tune them so they sound right when played open, the thick string goes sharp when you fret the strings. You can compromise, by tuning the octave string a bit flat so that it will only be a bit sharp when you fret it, which will help but won't solve the problem. It may bother you if you have a sensitive ear. Or it may bother your audience if you have one (I don't, usually).

Why put only 8 strings on? No good reason not to put 12 on it, but some people find 12 strings a nuisance. Some find it a nuisance keeping even 8 strings in tune. I was just considering all the options.

[allenhopkins]

...how come that arrangment comes with intonation problems? Shouldn't 3 perfectly tuned strings on a straight neck sound great up and down the board?

You need to buy, or even just play, a tiple. These are about the size of a tenor ukulele, and strung with ten strings in four courses, 2/3/3/2. The second and third courses have an octave lower string in the middle of the three strings, the fourth course has one octave lower string.

A short-scale instrument with "octaved" courses, like a tiple or an octave-strung mandriola, runs into the problem that pressing strings to the fretboard stretches them slightly, and the stretching of strings of widely different diameters, produces different intonation. You can get somewhat the same issue with the "octaved" string courses of a 12-string guitar. It's been my experience that this is more of an issue on a shorter-scale instrument.

When I tune my tiples (yes, I have two: a Regal koa instrument and a Martin T-15), I use a compromise method: not perfect octaves when the strings are "open" (un-fretted), not perfect intonation when they're fretted. Usually, the lower-octave, heavier strings have to be tuned a bit flat, so that they don't sound over-sharp when fretted up around the fourth or fifth fret.

The problem is somewhat exacerbated by the fact that the Martin "factory" tiple bridge -- both instruments have Martin bridges, another whole story that I won't get into here -- has a straight-across, uncompensated saddle. A bridge saddle with sophisticated compensation might avoid some of the issues, though I doubt that intonation discrepancies would be completely eliminated.

[tonydxn]

A bridge saddle with sophisticated compensation might avoid some of the issues, though I doubt that intonation discrepancies would be completely eliminated.

I did once have a mandriola that had such a bridge. It was about 10mm wide and gave the octave strings a bit more compensation. Your guess is exactly right - it eased the problem but didn't eliminate it. And it was a really clumsy-looking bridge. Here's a photo of it:

[MandoNina]

Thick strings need more compensation than thin ones. If you have one thick and two thin strings on each course and tune them so they sound right when played open, the thick string goes sharp when you fret the strings. You can compromise, by tuning the octave string a bit flat so that it will only be a bit sharp when you fret it, which will help but won't solve the problem. It may bother you if you have a sensitive ear. Or it may bother your audience if you have one (I don't, usually).

Why put only 8 strings on? No good reason not to put 12 on it, but some people find 12 strings a nuisance. Some find it a nuisance keeping even 8 strings in tune. I was just considering all the options.

Thank you so much Tony! I had never even begun to consider this. Come to think of it, I sometimes am a bit bothered by what I consider a slightly out of tune 12 string guitar at one of our monthly jam sessions. Most of the time I don't say anything and simply assume it's me, since we're all tuning up with digital tuners before we begin, but maybe I should trust my ear a bit more...

Either way this was really interesting information. I recon I'll go with same gauge courses to start of, and maybe experiment with an octave string per course further down the line.

[MandoNina]

You need to buy, or even just play, a tiple. These are about the size of a tenor ukulele, and strung with ten strings in four courses, 2/3/3/2.

Yeah I definitely need to play one of those! And I probably need to buy one too... Damn it Allen

[allenhopkins]

Yeah I definitely need to play one of those! And I probably need to buy one too... Damn it Allen...

If you want a career in conflict resolution, international diplomacy, or merger negotiations, buy a tiple. After a few years fussing with tuning it, you'll know everything there is to know about compromise.

And thanx to Tonydxn for the pic of the compensated mandriola bridge. Sometimes the "cure" can be a helluva lot more of a bother, than the disease.

[rcc56]

And then, there's always the charango . . . [and the bouzouki, and the Octofone, and the quatro, and, and, and . . . ]

[MandoNina]

If you want a career in conflict resolution, international diplomacy, or merger negotiations, buy a tiple. After a few years fussing with tuning it, you'll know everything there is to know about compromise.

Haha ok ok. I guess it's not for me after all