BTW, the top finish doesn't look original...
Adrian
OMG that’s gorgeous. Specially the top, original or not!
Look inside at the head block and give us the Factory Order Number (FON) that is stamped there. That will tell you the year it was built.
"It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
--M. Stillion
"Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
--J. Garber
Looks like a professional refinish, but not done by Gibson.
There are 4 filled holes between the hole and bridge. Pickup installed and then removed, maybe? That will adversely affect the value. Overall it looks nice but will have to be sold as a player, not for a collector.
Don
2016 Weber Custom Bitterroot F
2011 Weber Bitterroot A
1974 Martin Style A
2339 doesn't show up in the Spann book but 2337 is a 1913 L-3 and 2364 is a 1913 A. Not all of the FON's are listed. If we assume Joe Spann got it right then I would assume it was built earlier in 1913 and finished and sold a few years later with a 1915 serial number. Interestingly it doesn't line up with the FON's shown for 1913 in the Mandolin Archive but it does line up with the 1915 FON's.
Welcome to the wonderful world of dating Gibson mandolins.
"It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
--M. Stillion
"Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
--J. Garber
According to Joe Spann’s Guide to Gibson (you may want to order your own copy) both the Factory Order Number and the Serial Number date your F4 to production and sale in 1913. Joe’s extensive research has reset many of the previously accepted dates that appear elsewhere.
You will read in Joe’s book that the FON was assigned when the batch of instruments was built to keep track of the materials and labor. The serial numbers were assigned to instruments in finished goods just prior to fulfilling a sales order. Order fulfillment could have been immediately or several years later.
Mark
Mark Lynch
You can get a good price for a playable F4 but a lot has to do with how it sounds. Also, is the case with it? The good news is you have the tail cover and the pick guard. Can you send a picture with the tuner buttons?
Ha, ha! keep time: how sour sweet music is,
When time is broke and no proportion kept!
--William Shakespeare
You have the Handel tuners, that's a plus.
"It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
--M. Stillion
"Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
--J. Garber
If it plays well, the frets are good, the fingerboard flat, and there are no cracks or other structural problems, I think you've got a desirable instrument. As an F4 player myself, if I had the funds I would be happy to own one like that. Some may disagree, but the top, although not perfect, is "good enough": it has character. There were different finishes in tops for F4s, and that could well be one of the factory finishes.
You can get a good idea of what F4s look like at http://www.mandolinarchive.com. Good luck! I hope we see it here in the classifieds!
Last edited by Jack Roberts; Jun-15-2018 at 7:31pm.
Ha, ha! keep time: how sour sweet music is,
When time is broke and no proportion kept!
--William Shakespeare
Why is everyone else ignoring the 4 filled holes in the top? Or am I wrong and just seeing things?
Don
2016 Weber Custom Bitterroot F
2011 Weber Bitterroot A
1974 Martin Style A
It wasn't ignored, you mentioned it early on. It will devalue the instrument. Wishing it won't will not make it so. It's a player grade instrument not a collectable.
"It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
--M. Stillion
"Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
--J. Garber
Sorry, Multidon: I did notice the holes, and your posting, and I agree that the top is flawed, and should have mentioned the holes as an issue. There aiso seems to be a ding in the top as well.
I own a few 'teens Gibsons, and have played a lot more, and very few have been even close to perfect. I am pleased to own one of the better F4 examples. But I have also found that a lot the vintage instruments with more defects sound better, don't you agree? I would dearly love to play this F4 and see how it sounds.
I agree that as a museum piece, the top is a minus, but I'd like to take a closer look at the top finish.
I do think there are examples from that era of blonde tops as well as black tops and the beloved red tops. The Gibson Catalog from 1914 mentions that the top can be ordered with alternative finishes, and I would like to see this instrument up close to determine if this is a custom order finish. If it is, and not a refinish, it could make it more desirable.
Ha, ha! keep time: how sour sweet music is,
When time is broke and no proportion kept!
--William Shakespeare
It is not possible to say without the mandolin in hand, but I do not see any evidence that this mandolin was refinished. It does look like the color has faded, and all of the gloss is gone.
I have seen a considerable amount of variation in the color and shading of F-4's from this period.
The pickguard lacks the curlicue that encircles the bridge foot that I generally associate with early teens mandolins. I believe that the guard might have come from another instrument, made somewhere around 1916.
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