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Thread: Mandocello History ?

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    Default Mandocello History ?

    This is a follow-up to a thread started elsewhere about Bruchsal Zupfmusik Feste; I noted the dearth of mandocellos in the European orchestras, sheet music, and instrument sales at Bruchsal (instead, lots of guitars). I also mentioned Mike Marshall's excellent lecture on the history of mandolin in America. My impression was that the mandocello was primarily an American instrument (not necessarily invented or "only" in America). I was informed and corrected, but as a musical scholar (involved in choral and educational research) I want more and better information. I know some of you are deep into the lore and history of the instrument and would like to hear from you. I do know a little bit: the European use of the term "mandoloncello," the 5-course liuto cantabile, and the carved-top vs. bowlback designs. But I would love to hear from experts on the history and evolution of the mandocello as it exists today (as in my Gibson K2). I am also working on a presentation of solo mandocello music (nearly all of which is by American composers) and would like any further input on that; it would be good to include a bit of historical context at that event.

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    Default Re: Mandocello History ?

    Gather it all into book form, and I'd buy it!

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    Unfamous String Buster Beanzy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandocello History ?

    I think as a member of the bass end of the family it will always be fairly difficult to dig up decent historical snapshots.
    After all if it wasn’t for the bright & determined sparks like Pablo Casals & Mstislav Rostropovich even the violoncello could have continued to trundle along as a necessary item largely ignored as a solo or virtuoso instrument.
    Raffaele Calace made a big push with his liuto cantabile efforts, but never quite hooked into the ‘art music’ circles of europe in a similar way.
    It might help to look at it along with occurrences of the words mandolone arcimandola, arciliuto liuto moderno and even colascione or mandora. This is not because they are the same thing, rather because thei roles seem to have crossed over in filling in the basso from many works.
    The various wiki entries for those mention the confusions in the literature when referring to the various members of the bass end of the orchestras.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    There is one online item that caught my attention in my nternet rummagings a while back, where Vincenzo Schisani mentions the Archlute being superceeded by the mandoloncello by the early C19th; “venendo sostituito già nel XIX secolo dal ‘Mandoloncello’, più pratico e moderno e con una maggiore estensione anche nel registro grave.” he’s not too hot on supplying references so I don’t know where that came from. It seems very early, especially referencing it in orchestras, I suspect his use of the term “già nel XIX secolo“ may be referring to what we would term the C20th.

    As for solo music my impression so far is that the various basso instruments were normally for ensemble use until the 1900’s.

    Ugo Orlandi includes a great photo of a group from the Circolo Mandolinistico Bresciano, which includes a couple of archiliuti, three mandoloncelli and a mandola.
    Apparently this appears in his book “l mandolino a Brescia” which I don’t yet have a copy of.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Eoin



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    Default Re: Mandocello History ?

    Many thanks Beanzy!
    I need to get all scholarly on this stuff just like when I was in grad school, appreciate your leads on literature. I was not too terribly far from you a couple weeks ago, before going to Bruchsal we stayed with some friends in Romsey near Southampton. Had some of that local trout, right out of the "Test River." I can't even get fresh local trout in Oregon--they bring it in from trout farms in Idaho.

    I posted elsewhere about the Darwinian evolution (survival of what fits best) of string, wind, and keyboard instruments. Lutes, archlutes, theorbos, harpsichords, sacbutts and krumhorns were all replaced with instruments that we capable of a wider dynamics and chromatic pitches. Influences including larger halls, technology, and corporate economics bred out some instruments over others.

    Similar historical trends in music education (my field)--in the early post-colonial days, tunesmiths and traveling singing schools were replaced with songbooks and classroom music--supposedly more "refined and classy" but also made money for Lowell Mason. High school marching bands grew out of military band instrument companies creating a market after WWI. Mike Marshall (lecture at Bruchsal) exposed how the Gibson Corporation (not Orville himself) pushed out the bowlbacks and promoted carved American made mandolins. I believe that is one major reason we have more mandocellos in North America whereas the European orchestras (again, Bruchsal) had Mandolin, Mandola, and Guitars (hardly any MC's).
    Next time we visit our UK Romsey friends, I will check in with you, maybe compare notes and play a bit?

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    Unfamous String Buster Beanzy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandocello History ?

    I know Romsey a bit, my wife & I got married in Mottisfont Abbey, with the reception in a room painted with ‘tromps d’oeil’ by Rex Whistler, another american influence in the heart of things european.

    If you are heading through then be sure to check out timings for events in London too, we do get some amazing musical treats popping up, including great & rare opportunities to hear & be taught by world class mandolinists. A swerve to Cornwall would get you some good scenery, and we do seem to have hidden some world class musicians down here. Apart from a few gem events though they’re normally performing away where the paying audiences are easier to gather.

    It would be great to get a proper well referenced summary of how things developed. I think Gibson’s marketing of whole orchestra kits through their agency system helped solidify some of the more obscure instruments.
    There have been some good threads in the past on here about the Gibson marketing strategies etc.

    If you haven't already got the The Classical Mandolin" Paul Sparks and "The Early Mandolin" by James Tyler & Paul Sparks, those would be useful to begin & get a few solid references to follow up.

    What we lack, and I suspect will continue to lack unless real time can be spent on it, is a detailed history of the players and composition of the orchestras before and during the ‘golden era’ up to and around the turn of that millennium.
    Records tend to have been lost away in obscurity once the actual orchestras closed, many others must have been consumed in the urban fires of the global conflicts through the C20th. Leaving us with press cuttings and chance finds of manuscripts & photographs where thet surface against the odds. Without these we are likely to get a biased impression based on places which did not suffer the same level of destruction. However there must be information out there in the attics & back rooms across europe.
    Eoin



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    Mandolin tragic Graham McDonald's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandocello History ?

    Mandocellos appeared both in Europe and America around the 1880s and 90s, as the mandolin orchestra movement evolved and grew. In Europe the mandolin orchestra instruments developed in two streams. In Naples, Raffaele Calace was building both octave mandolas and the liuto cantabile (essentially a larger octave mandola with an added low C course) as the tenor and baritone voices of the mandolin group. The liuto was interchangeable with a guitar and in Germany especially the mix of mandolins, octave mandolas and guitar became the usual instruments of mandolin orchestras. In Rome Luigi Embergher introduced his mandolin quartet of mandolins, tenor mandola and mandocello in the late 1890s with the idea that this combination mirrored the bowed string quartet. This 'classical quartet' did not seem to ever have been as popular as the 'romantic quartet' of Calace. The picture posted above of members of the Circolo Mandolinistico Bresciano look like Embergher instruments which would suggest that those may have been more popular in the north of Italy.

    The first evidence I have seem of an American mandocello is of 1896 when a photo was published in The Cadenza of The Waldo Club of Saginaw, Michigan (where the Waldo mandolin and 'banjeaux' were built) The group includes a mandolin and mandocello. Buy the next year both Howe-Orme of Boston and Francis O Gutman (FOG Mandolins) of Cleveland, Ohio were advertising mandocellos in their offerings. The Gibson catalogue B from (I think) 1903 included two models of both mandolas and mandocellos but no illustrations which suggests they might not have actually made any by that early stage of operations. Over the next 20-30 years many of the companies selling mandolins included mandocellos in their range, but usually made in quite small numbers.

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    Default Re: Mandocello History ?

    I have these Mandocello tuners and wonder what they came off of? By the looks of them they look pre 1920ish? Nice engraving/stamping with fixed pearl buttons, also the posts suggest for a slot peg head? Anyone know what they originally came on by chance? Click image for larger version. 

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    Default Re: Mandocello History ?

    Graham and Beanzy, these are the kinds of leads I need. My scholarly research is in other areas of music, and I have been relying on mandocello information from friends and posts. Thank you; I ordered The Mandolin--a History and will look into the other sources, especially those that detail the mandocello. I will tell my grad students I have more important things to do!
    Thank you

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    Default Re: Mandocello History ?

    There was similar fashion in early 20th Century England for mandolin orchestras, similar to what Graham describes for Italy and the contemporary movement in the USA. Before commercially recorded music and radio broadcasts there was a huge grassroots music movement in UK cities, fed by the growing prosperity of the middle class and a hunger for 'cultural enrichment' or just music-based socialising. Both Europe and America seem to have shared similar socio-economic contexts for the early 20th Century 'home-made music' boom (which seems to have happened in isolation from any local folk music activities, at least in the UK). The outbreak of the Great War in Europe seems to have put a brake on these music-making trends, then new technologies helped suppress them as the century progressed.

    Canny instrument makers (as with Gibson in the USA) recognised and served this demand from many newly-formed local bands. This applied to all forms of music and many classes of instruments, not just string ensembles. Concertina bands were formed across the UK (with the Salvation Army prominent) and, most famously, brass bands - often sponsored by local employers. The brass band tradition remains important in northern England, although much diminished, whilst the other types of bands have all but disappeared.

    In the early 1900s J E Dallas of London would outfit entire bands/ orchestras with a complete suite of mandos, ranging from sopranino to upright bass, including both octave mandolin (which Dallas called a 'mandolo') and mandocello. One of the Dallas adverts shows a military band that had been outfitted in this way, presumably to give the officers and their wives a rest from the usual brass and wind performances, when playing indoors. These were well made and robust enough for some to occasionally turn up in playable condition. I have examples of Dallas mandolin, tenor mandola and (octave) mandolo, which I play and I have seen examples of the mandocellos for sale but for rather more money than I paid for my trio.

    Kevin
    Anglocelt
    mainly Irish & Scottish but open to all dance-oriented melodic music.
    Mandos: Gibson A2, Janish A5, Krishot F5, Taran Springwell, Shippey, Weber Elite A5; TM and OM by Dave Gregory, J E Dallas, Tobin & Davidson.

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    Registered User thecelloronin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandocello History ?

    I have nothing more to contribute to this thread other than to second the notion of compiling your findings into a book for purchase. I'd love to get my hands on that collection of solo m'cello music!

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    Default Re: Mandocello History ?

    I do have a respectable collection of mandocello solo music and will be presenting it at CMSA Santa Rosa in November. I do not want to "publish" or sell any of it: that is up to the actual composers to decide. Besides the concerns with editing, printing, copying and organizing the music, I want to get some reactions and opinions from the mandocello players at the session. Then I will put some of the music out, possibly in a Cafe post, and will also post contacts for the composers who might want to copyright and sell their music.

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    Default Re: Mandocello History ?

    I transcribed this duet from the Bickford Book page 23 to Bass Clef and Transposed Clef for MandoCelloClick image for larger version. 

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    Default Re: Mandocello History ?

    It's a black page?

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    Default Re: Mandocello History ?

    Quote Originally Posted by NotMelloCello View Post
    It's a black page?
    Did you click on the image ? should download a pdf

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    Registered User Martin Jonas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandocello History ?

    Quote Originally Posted by wundo View Post
    I transcribed this duet from the Bickford Book page 23 to Bass Clef and Transposed Clef for MandoCello
    Thank you very much -- I'll have a go at that!

    Which Bickford book? His mandolin book or the earlier 1913 mandocello book? I've not managed to find a copy of the mandocello book -- do you have it? It's public domain now, so there should be no copyright issues.

    Incidentally, in the first photo in Eoin's post above (#3 in this thread), that's Giuseppe Branzoli himself playing the mandocello-looking instrument. A close-up of that photo is in Branzoli's Wikipedia entry, where the instrument is said to be a mandolone (restrung as 12-string guitar). The Wikipedia entry for "mandolone" has both of the photos posted by Eoin.

    Martin

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    Default Re: Mandocello History ?

    It's from his Mandocello book, written in universal notation.

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    Default Re: Mandocello History ?

    here's the originalClick image for larger version. 

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    Default Re: Mandocello History ?

    Wundo, thanks; if OK with you I might add this to my MC presentation at CMSA. I wanted to avoid transcriptions from bowed cello and other instruments, but this appears to be genuine mandocello stuff. I do have some Bickford excerpts, but this makes a nice playable duet for variety. I believe most of the CMSA mandocello players are used to bass clef.

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    Default Re: Mandocello History ?

    I have another called How can I leave thee, also from his book.
    If anyone wants a pdf copy of his bk, pm me.

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    Default Re: Mandocello History ?

    Thanks, I have that one from another source, both parts in bass clef. Are you a member of Classical Mandolin Society? Our November convention is in Santa Rosa CA.

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    Default Re: Mandocello History ?

    I'm an on and off member. Won't be at this year's convention.

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    Registered User Martin Jonas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandocello History ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Jonas View Post
    Thank you very much -- I'll have a go at that!
    As promised, here is my recording of the Bickford Duet in G -- thanks again for the transcription, saves me trying to transpose "universal notation" while sightreading.

    This is pretty easy to play, at least the mandocello part, but good fun. Nice interplay of the alternating tremolo and arpeggio parts. I've played the mandolin part on a 1921 Gibson A-Jr, for some vintage Gibson vibes seeing that the Bickford Method was published by Gibson. I've played the slurred notes tremolo, as specified in the book, but have used alternating picking for the single-note passages rather than all-downstrokes as specified by Bickford. Sounds more fluent this way, I find.

    I don't often tremolo on the mandocello, especially on the G and C courses, but the Suzuki came through quite nicely here.

    Suzuki MC-815 mandocello
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    Martin

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  33. #23
    Registered User Martin Jonas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandocello History ?

    I've just transcribed another of the mandocello duets from the Bickford mando-cello book, from the copy that wundo kindly sent me.

    This is the "Cantabile", the ninth duet in the section of "technical studies", p. 60. The composing credit is partially cut off, but I think it says "Kummer". Friedrich August Kummer (1797 – 1879) was a cellist and wrote many etudes for the instrument, so this is the most likely provenance. That would suggest that this etude was originally for violoncello, not an original mandocello composition, although Bickford may have added the second mandocello part.

    I attach it in two versions, bass clef and octave treble clef (for any octave mandolinist or guitarists who want to try this -- the first part is entirely in their range and the second part needs only a small adjustment to make it playable).

    I'll try to make a recording over the weekend.

    Martin
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Bickford Cantabile (bass clef).pdf   Bickford Cantabile octave treble clef).pdf  

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    Default Re: Mandocello History ?

    I will continue my pest quest: Do you give me permission to use this at the CMSA Solo Mandocello Reading session?
    Thanks for adding to the growing body of music that--only a few months ago--many people told me did not exist.

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    Default Re: Mandocello History ?

    As a sometimes mandocellist, I’m excited to get this preview of what to expect at the mandocello workshop at the CMSA convention and appreciate the crowdsourced knowledge and materials. (Are there enough mandocellists to be a crowd?) It looks to be quite a workshop and I plan to attend.

    As a member of the convention host committee, I encourage people to attend the convention, for the workshops, performances, and participation in the En Mass Orchestra. It is November 14-18, in Santa Rosa, California. Registration is open, on the CMSA website. We plan to have a lot of mandolin family fun.

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