Bending fretwire

[MinkBrookRambler]

I have a question about the results of my attempts to bend fretwire. I have a compound radius fretboard prepped for fretting, and I have straight EVO gold fretwire from LMII. I just used a pair of Stewmac fret bending pliers and a radiused piece of wood to bend the wire, and I’m not sure the results are good enough.

Here’s the way the wire looks now:



Is this too irregular? As a thumbnail I think it looks a little better than in real life; if you open the photo it may look more like reality. There are some specific bumps that I think I can snip out and not bother using on the fretboard, but I’m thinking about the fact that this is not the sort of gentle, fair curve that I’ve seen come out of crankwheel-type fretwire benders.

I’m not asking what sort of apparatus to use to bend fretwire—I’ve read lots of the existing threads about what options exist—rather, I’m curious to know if the wire that I’ve already bent will be adequate for good results. FWIW when I get to installing the frets I’ll be using a loaned arbor press with fret cauls.

Thanks as always for your help.

[sunburst]

It is nearly impossible to install frets without some distortion of their shape. Seating them fully and securely into well fit slots goes a long way toward making them level and even, but getting every fret set to the exact same depth, and getting the fingerboard arch perfectly even from end to end of the fingerboard are virtual impossibilities. That's why we mill and re-crown frets after we install them.
Add a "compound radius" (usually that means a conical fingerboard profile) and each fret needs to be a different arch, and that adds a whole 'nother degree of difficulty.
Unless you have serious kinks in the wire, the the frets should be OK after you install them if they fit their slots well, and a little work with a "fret rocker" followed by milling and re-crowning should get everything in good shape.

When I click your picture I see one kink near the end to the right that I think might cause a problem, but I don't see any other obvious problem areas. I am only looking at an internet photo, so...

[John Kelly]

I usually bend the wire not as a long piece but after I have cut it to slightly oversize, Derek. I grip the tang gently at one end in flat-nosed pliers (or even my mini cutters, taking care not to squeeze too hard) so that the wire is lying flat along the top edge of the plier/cutter jaws, then press gently on the other end of the wire with my thumb to create a curve slightly tighter than the radius of the fingerboard. Sounds very hit-and-miss when I say it like this, but I find it works. The aim with pre-bending is to ensure the tang is seated firmly at the outer edges of the board, and the curve helps to ensure that the wire goes in fully all along the fret slot. I have never tried the arbor press method. Hope this helps.

[sunburst]

...I have never tried the arbor press method...

For a conical fingerboard, in order for the arbor press method to work as it is touted, we would need a different tool to press each fret because each fret is a different radius. I've tried the arbor press method, if was OK I guess, but I went back to hammering frets and my results are the same.

[pops1]

I bend the frets after I cut them to length. I grab the tang with an end cutter and make slight bends moving the cutter grasping the tang across the fret length. I usually bend until it is slightly more radiused than the fretboard so when hammering in the fret it will spread slightly and seat better than straight in.

[rcc56]

You probably don't need to put quite so much bend in the wire. It will be easier to handle, less likely to kink, and easier to drive. I usually pre-radius half of a 2 foot length of wire at a time. More than that gets hard to handle. If I need to add more radius, I do it after the frets are cut to length like Pops.

I also still use a hammer. I often get my initial seat by working my way across the fret with a hammer and a hardwood block, then chase once or twice with the hammer directly on the fret, and finally knock the overhang down. It takes a little longer, but I get far fewer loose frets that have to be pulled and redone. I tried a radiused block a few times, but was not satisfied with the results.

Although I am curious about pressing them in, I have not tried it. It seems to me that if I did press, I would still want to chase the frets with a hammer to ensure the best seat possible.

I just bend the wire with an ancient pair of needle nose pliers with notches cut into the jaws to hold the wire and my free hand. I don't see any great need for a fancy radius jig. If I was going to use a piece of wood for a jig, I would probably cut a slot in the jig to accommodate the tang and go for about a 12" radius.

[graham darden]

I buy the evo coiled. Pretty close to a 12" radius.

[MinkBrookRambler]

Slight change of subject: I put the frets in, and at the 7th fret I had the problem where I hammered in one side, then the other, and when hammering the second side the first end popped up, resulting in some chip-out from the tang studs. I had chamfered the fret slots to prevent this, but evidently not enough. Here’s what it looks like:


Is there a way to clean this up without making the problem worse?

[Dale Ludewig]

If you've got some ebony sanding dust, you could put it in there and wick a little super glue over it. Leave it proud of the surface. Do this after the fret is set in place! Then take an utility knife blade or something like it- scrape it level, sand 320-400, steelwool or scotchbrite, and I think you'll be okay.

[pops1]

Similar to Dale, I would glue the splinters and fret in with CA and clamp the fret down. Clamping the fret will lower the splinters. Wipe any squeeze out, but you will have to use a knife or scraper and clean the fretboard after the glue sets up. You can scrape up to the fret and it will not be noticeable.

[HoGo]

Whenever I notice lifting splinters (during pulling frets) I glue them bac with drop of CA immediately after fret removal - making sure I won't lose them. Missing splinters get filled with drop of CA and bit of ebony dust pressed in with knife, then levelled.
What worries me in your case is that your fretwire is not bent enough to conform the board radius, it's always better to have the fret slightly over-bent and hammer in one end slightly, then the other and then slowly along the whole fret till it seats fully. If teh fret is not bent enough you are risking the fret ends lifting up (especially during dry periods). On some instruments with bad slots I like to use drop of CA to the ends just to prevent this.

[Inklings]

I was taught to put a sheet of tinfoil underneath the neck work area when removing frets. You can hear the ebony/rosewood/etc chunks when they fall, and then quickly relocate them.

[Willie Poole]

Not to bump this thread but I own both radius and flat fingerboard mandolins and have not seen an advantage to the one with a radius so if they are so complicated to install frets into them then why do it?

Willie

[sblock]

Not to bump this thread but I own both radius and flat fingerboard mandolins and have not seen an advantage to the one with a radius so if they are so complicated to install frets into them then why do it? Willie

This seems foolish to me. Just because you don't happen to experience much of a difference between your flat and radiused fingerboards, it doesn't follow that everyone else will feel the same way as you! Many players have a strong preference for one type of fingerboard or the other. In fact, radiused fretboards have become quite popular among many mandolinists, and they drive a market segment for these.

[Inklings]

Hi Willie,

That's a great conversation starter - should probably go into it's own thread, though. I'd be interested in reading it, for sure.

I think the OP was more concerned about technique for refretting, and the radius of the fingerboard is simply another variable in how luthiers perform that task.

[Drew Streip]

Not to bump this thread but I own both radius and flat fingerboard mandolins and have not seen an advantage to the one with a radius so if they are so complicated to install frets into them then why do it?

Willie

It's actually not any more complicated. We might as well ask, if ebony fingerboards tend to chip, why don't we just all use maple fretboards like Stratocasters and Telecasters? If staining an instrument doesn't make it sound better, why not just leave them natural?

When I ordered EVO fretwire, it came in a lightly coiled two-foot length. It worked perfectly for my very first re-fret on a 12" radius, with no modifications. I'm not bragging -- I'm actually saying it can't be that difficult if I could do it.

There's not a perfectly linear order of operations when working on instruments. Sometimes things go perfectly despite all odds. Other times, you can't catch a break.

Also -- mandolins are just one instrument in the realm of fretted instruments. The VAST majority of non-classical guitars have radius boards, so it's not like this conversation would be voided if a few mandolin players decided they liked flat boards better.