Ship To Canada

[dorenac]

I have a possible buyer for an instrument to Canada, just North of Cleveland. This is all new to me, not only for the shipping issue itself but also the pay issue. On the latter I assume a credit card would work--I can process them in my business. But the shipping company is also an unknown to me. I would appreciate help and advice.
Thanks

[colorado_al]

I have used USPS to ship to Canada and other non-USA locations. I have had no problems and the cost was reasonable.

[dorenac]

How about payment? Can that be done as simple as a credit card?

[colorado_al]

I've taken payment by PayPal, but I don't see why direct CC transaction would be a problem.

[Ranald]

Canadian credit cards can be used for US purchases. However, PayPal is easy to use, and many (including me) prefer using it when not dealing with a well-known company. The large courier companies operate across the border, and, I believe, the US and Canadian post offices work together for expedited delivery, for which you pay a higher rate, as you would with the couriers. I've only experienced this from the Canadian end.

[tiltman]

I'm not a dealer - just a regular guy. I sold a couple of vintage instruments to a dealer in Canada.
USPS to ship the instruments - costs more than shipping within the US but not crazy expensive.
Payment handled via bank transfer.

Kirk

[Folkmusician.com]

With few exceptions USPS is the best way to ship to Canada. The brokerage fee is a major factor. UPS and Fedex add a large brokerage fee that the buyer will pay upon receiving.

#2 Does it have rosewood? if so, use caution, it could be confiscated. Rosewood is often used in areas other than the fingerboard and bridge, which is why there is so much trouble with CITES, even on mandolins with ebony fittings.

Legally you need a permit to export an instrument with rosewood. There is a fee and it takes quite a while to get.

No Rosewood, you should be fine.

No reason yor merchant account won't take a Canada card, you will more than likely pay a higher processing fee though.

[dhergert]

...

No Rosewood, you should be fine.

...

Robert, I keep reading inferences that Ebony is also going to be on the CITES list. Is that true?

[Folkmusician.com]

Don,

I am not sure, but I do believe the world is burning through ebony at a non sustainable rate. I doubt fingerboards, bridges, violin fittings are the main issue here. It was the furniture industry that decimated Rosewood.

As of now, I haven't personally heard any news about a change from ebony, but I'll bet the manufacturers will be more prepared this time around. The Rosewood thing just about stopped production while they figured it out.

[dorenac]

#2 Does it have rosewood? if so, use caution, it could be confiscated. Rosewood is often used in areas other than the fingerboard and bridge, which is why there is so much trouble with CITES, even on mandolins with ebony fittings.



No Rosewood, you should be fine.

.

Yes there is rosewood. I am shipping a guitar with rosewood fretboard and ebony bridge and bridge pins. The back and sides are machiche. Will the question come up concerning wood content if shipped USPS?

[Folkmusician.com]

If you go to the counter, they give you a quick few questions. It could come up.

If you handle the label yourself (online), it may not directly come up, but it is clear that you are not supposed to ship illegal things.

Odds of it making it through fine? I don't know. There are not a lot of references out there yet, since this is relatively new.

Your package will go through customs, they will know it is a guitar. They may be briefed that many guitars have Rosewood. They may inspect it. If they go this far, they may also confiscate it and there is little you can do.

The form for a permit is online, so that is the safe way to handle it.

In general, I would not ship something with rosewood out of country unless it was REALLY worth while. Then I would get the permit. Combine the CITES rules with shipping costs and the fact that things do occasional go wrong, it just outweighs the benefit.

[colorado_al]

Yes there is rosewood. I am shipping a guitar with rosewood fretboard and ebony bridge and bridge pins. The back and sides are machiche. Will the question come up concerning wood content if shipped USPS?

Depends on if you wish to take a chance. I shipped an old mandolin with rosewood fretboard somewhere outside of the USA and had no problems, but it was fairly inexpensive so I wouldn't have been out much if it got flagged. It probably isn't worth the hassle to get permitted as an individual/non-dealer.

[dorenac]

Do the same regulations apply if a Canadian citzen drives into the US picks up the instrument and drives back to Canada with it? Is he smuggling then? This particular buyer lives in Canada just north of Cleveland.

[pops1]

Others will know more, but I don't think it applies to carrying your personal instrument.

[Ranald]

Do the same regulations apply if a Canadian citzen drives into the US picks up the instrument and drives back to Canada with it? Is he smuggling then? This particular buyer lives in Canada just north of Cleveland.

A Canadian citizen is subject to the same importation laws. As well, he or she is legally required to declare the purchased item at the border, with proof of purchase.

The issue of whether rosewood is banned in Canada has come up, and no one has an answer. I suspect it's a non-issue. The Canadian Customs website doesn't say it is banned. However, like any bureaucracy, ours is full of surprises, so I wouldn't depend on that. I've contacted my nephew, who works in a music store, and should be able to tell me whether rosewood is banned. Sometimes it takes a few days for him to get back to me, but I'll let you know when he does. (If there's an email trail, Canada or US Customs can find this.)

Two more points:

When I bought an instrument shipped from the US by a Mandolin Cafe participant, she was surprised to find that the courier company had deducted Canadian taxes or customs duties beyond what we were expecting. I paid her the difference, but I had the instrument in my hands by that point, and could have not paid her if I was inclined that way. Make sure that your customer agrees to pay any unexpected Canadian government fees.

Canada and the US both ban the importation of ivory, but Canada doesn't ban antique ivory though the US does. If you're an American visiting Canada and carrying your instrument with ivory pegs, American customs could confiscate it when you're returning home. Leave the ivory at home when travelling -- don't bring your old piano.

[Bruce Clausen]

Right, Canadian residents declare purchases at the border and pay federal and provincial sales tax (but no duty if the item was made in the US). I've done this four times over the years, and the agents have always been very welcoming when I say I have a $4000 purchase to declare. No one has ever shown any interest in seeing the instrument, but of course you can't count on that.

The only time I ever had to open a case was when heading south with an instrument I was intending to sell in the US. I think he just wanted to verify it was a US product, and so not subject to duties. A good thing, since it had both Brazilian rosewood and ivory on it. I still own that guitar, and wouldn't try taking it anywhere now.

I've never had anything shipped into Canada, but I gather that using the postal system saves the recipient a hefty "brokerage" fee.

[rockies]

I've shipped and brought guitars across several times in the last couple years. My understanding of the rosewood issue, the only rosewood banned in Canada is brazilian under the CITES. We do not have the LACEY act in Canada, it is a USA act. So indian and other rosewoods are not prohibited from coming in .. YET. A personal guitar even with rosewood can be taken to the USA and back as long as it will not be left there. I'm always asked if I'm leaving any thing ion the US on my trips. IMHO Yes use USPS shipping and CC are good as both parties are under contract to the Credit card company, seller and buyer. Paypal is great and usually tied to your CC anyway.
Dave

[J.Albert]

OP:

Are you a "private seller", or a business?

If you're a private seller, it's probably not worth trying to go through with this sale.

That's why my sales are always "USA only", "lower 48".

[rockies]

I have done several sales through the border into Canada, so far never had a problem. If the seller has a lower US only as J. Alberta mentions I use a shipping company in Eureka Montana and have the guitar or other item shipped there. Then I drive down to Eureka and pick it up, take it to Canada customs, declare it, pay the taxes (no duties under NAFTA) and bring the guitar back with me. These have all been private purchases, not from dealers. I did bring personally one Martin HD-28 from Greg Boyd's in Missoula MT 18 months ago so one dealer guitar. It was too good and I couldn't resist. I sold it to my buddy I play with.
Dave

[colorado_al]

I have done several sales through the border into Canada, so far never had a problem. If the seller has a lower US only as J. Alberta mentions I use a shipping company in Eureka Montana and have the guitar or other item shipped there. Then I drive down to Eureka and pick it up, take it to Canada customs, declare it, pay the taxes (no duties under NAFTA) and bring the guitar back with me. These have all been private purchases, not from dealers. I did bring personally one Martin HD-28 from Greg Boyd's in Missoula MT 18 months ago so one dealer guitar. It was too good and I couldn't resist. I sold it to my buddy I play with.
Dave

Rockies, I was just up your way a few weeks ago for a 5 day snow cat ski trip north of Nelson near the Goat Range. What a great place! Wish I'd had time to get to Missoula to go by Greg's place. I haven't been there in a few years, but what a sweet shop!
I traveled by car from WA to BC and back, with a mandolin with rosewood fretboard and bridge, and no questions asked either direction.

To the OP: If I were the one selling the instrument, and I knew that the rosewood was not from the locations that are banned for trade, I'd ship it. But you need to make that decision for yourself.

[Ranald]

My nephew, who sells musical instruments in Edmonton, Alberta, emailed me:

"Rosewood is not banned but it is controlled. Selling is a non issue but it does require paperwork and extra time. We've had shipments held at the border for weeks. Depending on how in order said companies paperwork is.

"I'm not as hip about private sales."

If your customer is willing to take the risk, he or she could go to your place, buy the instrument, then pay customs fees and such at the border. Unless they happen to run into a customs agent who's a luthier in her spare time, I doubt that the issue of rosewood is going to come up.

All the best.

[Folkmusician.com]

That is inline with what I heard via a phone conversation with a supplier. They were shipping guitars with Rosewood to dealers in Canada, but it was a hassle. They had started only doing larger orders because of this.

I hadn't research the private side, and it sounds like they are not paying much attention there according to everyones posts.

[dorenac]

Well the sale I'm talking about is strictly private citizen to private citizen. When I went to the post office yesterday to inquire, there was no questioning of what the guitar was built of. The agent gave me the forms, which were minimal, and that was all there was. Does Canadian customs intercept and inspect USPS packages that look suspicious?

[Ranald]

Well the sale I'm talking about is strictly private citizen to private citizen. When I went to the post office yesterday to inquire, there was no questioning of what the guitar was built of. The agent gave me the forms, which were minimal, and that was all there was. Does Canadian customs intercept and inspect USPS packages that look suspicious?

USPS sends many planeloads of packages from the US to Canada every day. Most of these items aren't inspected thoroughly, as there are simply too many. When I got a banjo-mandolin from the US, it arrived quickly, and I don't believe it was examined. In fact, I'm not sure that I ever had a shipped item opened by customs, though they have the right to search anything. I've known of people occasionally finding that items were poorly re-packaged between shipping and receiving, but these were importers bringing in items from South America or the Middle East. There's always a possibility that a package might be chosen at random for a search -- they do that to keep us honest -- but even then, I think they'd be focussing on guns and cocaine rather than specific types of wood.

[Folkmusician.com]

I have had a lot of of packages held up in customs. No idea why, and they are always released later. I believe it is more about figuring out the value than anything else.