humidification

[jmmiller413]

Hello All,

Just purchased my first mandolin after borrowing a cheapo to get started, an Eastman MD 505. After putting money into the new instrument, I'm trying to get a bead on how to go about tackling the humidification question. I have read on here about the humidipaks, the oasis humidifier, having a hygrometer, etc, there are obviously a ton of camps on this issue. I did however find a post discussing the concept of humidifying the entire home using a humidifier attached to your furnace. I actually have a setup like this on my furnace. I am curious if this is sufficient if I leave the mandolin in its case in a central part of the house? If I use a second hygrometer to monitor the situation I realize I am looking for drastic changes and trying to make the humidity maintain the 40-60% window. Anything else I am missing? Thanks for the help.

[pops1]

Humidifying the house is the best since it will not only help your instruments, but your furniture, house, YOU, basically everything in your house that is made of wood. I know you are not made of wood, but it will be better for you too. I am not a fan of the furnace humidifying, but if you have it and are not adding it to your furnace then I would use it.

[yankees1]

Hello All,

Just purchased my first mandolin after borrowing a cheapo to get started, an Eastman MD 505. After putting money into the new instrument, I'm trying to get a bead on how to go about tackling the humidification question. I have read on here about the humidipaks, the oasis humidifier, having a hygrometer, etc, there are obviously a ton of camps on this issue. I did however find a post discussing the concept of humidifying the entire home using a humidifier attached to your furnace. I actually have a setup like this on my furnace. I am curious if this is sufficient if I leave the mandolin in its case in a central part of the house? If I use a second hygrometer to monitor the situation I realize I am looking for drastic changes and trying to make the humidity maintain the 40-60% window. Anything else I am missing? Thanks for the help.

You are on the right path! Low humidity as they have in Arizona can damage your instrument ! A friend of mine in Az has tons of money but won't humidify his house( doesn't want to spend the money) and he annually has to take his guitars in for repair due to the damage from low humidity.

[MikeZito]

+1 with Pops.

If you can financial afford to humidify your entire house, it is probably the best route. However, if that might be a stretch, I have found from personal experience that there are three simple steps to the best protection:

1. ALWAYS keep your instrument in a case, whenever you are not playing it. A hard-shell case works a bit better, but even a gig bag should be fine.

2. Keep your instrument in a room with a comfortable room temperature. As a general rule of thumb, just think of it this way; If you are comfortable so, is your instrument.

3. Buy a room humidifier and a hygrometer; (should be well under $100 for both); and do your best to keep at as much humidity in the room as possible. While it is highly preferable to do so; note that the humidity does NOT always have to be in that magic 40-60% range - just as long as you have a good stream of moisture being pumped into the air, and the instruments are cased.

To make along story short - MANY years ago, (before I knew any better), I nearly ruined several higher-end guitars due to a lack of proper precautions. My rehearsal room is in a commercial office building, and during the winter months the humidity in my suite drops to about 16%. Even though my room humidifier often doesn't often raise the humidity to more than about 30% or so, by keeping my instruments cased when not in use, and keeping a stream of humidity going in the room, I have had NO problems with any of my many, many instruments, for the past 22 years.

[Ranald]

I've used various in-case humidifiers over the years -- Damp-it, Oasis, and another that stores water for a relatively long time -- and found them all good as long as I remember to refill them. I never had a problem with an instrument suffering damage. A warning though: my buddy's son kept an in-case humidifier in his guitar case over the summer months, which are quite humid in our neck of the woods, and ended up with a mouldy guitar that he had to throw out.

[JeffD]

If a whole house humidifier will work, that is great. In an older house with solid wood floors and lots of solid wood furniture, it seems to take a whole lot of humidification to raise or lower the room by even a point or two. The floors just drink it up.

In cases like this individual humidification, in each case, may work better. Or treat one closet or small bedroom with the right kinds of paint so the floors and other wood is not exposed, humidify that room and keep your instruments, in their cases, in that room.

Just something to think about.

[Folkmusician.com]

Anything else I am missing? Thanks for the help.

Nope. If you are monitoring via a hygrometer, you should be good.

[jmmiller413]

Ok so the whole house setup will work. Great. I think leaving the mandolin in a central room will work. Any suggestions on a reliable hygrometer. From what I can tell they can be a bit wishy-washy.

[CES]

I use a hygrometer/thermometer I bought at Lowes (it's an indoor/outdoor combo) that works reasonably well. It's probably not 100% accurate, but it's close, and seems pretty consistent. I think I've only had to change batteries twice in about 5 years. At work and can't think of the brand offhand.

I use whole house humidifiers on my HVAC systems, and really like it in the main level and upstairs. Keeps us and my wife's piano happy. My instrument room is in my better insulated basement, however, with ground/stained concrete floors, which is a different beast altogether. I set the wall monitor somewhere between 10-20% depending on how cold things get in the winter (I'm in central NC, so, teens/20s is about as bad as we get, and not often) and cut it off around this time of year (and then switch to a dehumidifier in summer months). The risk for me there is more excessive humidity than too little. With some attention, though, it stays 35-50% consistently, and usually around 45%. I keep all my instruments in cases, which helps buffer if I leave the humidifier rolling a little too long. With the concrete floors, the humidity can change pretty quickly. But, I've figured the system out now, and all is well.

I have a hygrometer in my new Travelite case that always reads 62%...clearly broken. But, since I wouldn't base any adjustments off that one, anyway, not worth the return hassle or shipping costs. I'm sure there are better hygrometers than the one I'm using, but they're gonna be much more costly.

[JFDilmando]

A couple of comments :
I have no idea of why folks advise anyone to always keep an instrument in a case whenever not in use... I suppose that it is indeed the most protective way to have an instrument anywhere.... saving it from getting knocked about going by, or dropping something on it. Other than that, it would have no real difference given anything to do with humidity. Many folks, more educated than I, have informed me that hour by hour, day by day, fluctuations in humidity, even in the extremes, is unlikely to affect your instrument. It is the longer term presence of high or low humidity that can cause damage.

On the flip side of putting your instrument in a case when not in use, I have had several pro musicians relate that they always keep their instruments out on stands whenever not in use. Their reasoning was that having the instruments visible, and easily available, promotes more active practice and invites play time.... I have found this to be most assuredly true. Instrument is packed away in a case, tucked in a corner, under the bed, in the closet... naw... just that much hassle... I'll play it when I have more time.... rather than, i have a some mins here, let me grab that thing and try what was just in my head.

Certainly, one needs to be very cognizant of high humidity, as well as the environment being dry. I have experienced the downside of being a misguided humidity freak, keeping humidity too high, and finding finishes "blush" and cloud as a response. It can be fairly simply be fixed, but certainly disconcerting none the less.

[Gary Leonard]

Yes, whole house is the way to go in my opinion. I would leave it out of it's case, available to play at a moment's notice. I keep a stand by my desk, and have them hanging on the wall when I am not around. In the Chicago area, and heating season can easily lower the humidity in the teens with furnace running so often. There was one cold snap we had this year where my humidifier struggled to keep it above 30%, and that was the only time I banished my instruments to their cases.

Beware of over humidification in a case, that is worse than a couple days at low humidity.

[CES]

JohnD: Because I have many instruments and don’t want to have to have music store style double decker stands. I may eventually get them on a wall, but then I still have to store cases. And, it’s a concrete floor, so a bump from the dogs or kids, and, kaboom! I have a triple stand that I leave instruments out on when I’m using them, but only the Eastman 315 or cheap electrics get left out unattended (I learned the hard way how thick the finish is on an import G and L Tele) good ones when I’m using them. And, if I want to play, or if I just have a few minutes to noodle, the 10 seconds it takes to pull and pop open a case isn’t a deterrent for me...

On topic, a good case will help slow how drastically he local environment’s temp and humidity change. If you don’t have whole house or the room humidified, then case humidifiers is what’s left.

[DHopkins]

On topic, a good case will help slow how drastically he local environment’s temp and humidity change. If you don’t have whole house or the room humidified, then case humidifiers is what’s left.

Case humidifiers are fine. If you rent and don't have a humidifier in the system or perhaps just don't want the noise of a humidifier, individual case humidifiers are fine. D'Addario even has a monitor for your case that you can Bluetooth to your smartphone to keep you apprised of the moisture inside the case. A couple of my friends have them and they said they work just fine. I think they have an "alert" function if the moisture gets too low.

[pops1]

A stand alone humidifier can be used anywhere, and if you rent you can take it with you should you leave. I heat with wood and have for decades, a humidifier keeps my place where I choose to set it, even with wood heat.

[J Mangio]

My whole house inline HVAC humidifier does not satisfy my needs, I bought a Honeywell warm mist humidifier for my bedroom on eBay for $30.00, along with an elcheapo hygrometer we’re both happy, my go to Mandolin of late is hanging on my bedroom wall,
ready for action.

[J-45er]

Here's what I do. I keep the instrument in its case along with a Herco guitar humidifier and a $4.00 Petco Imagitarium Humidity Gauge when not playing. I remove the Herco humidifier from the case if the humidity gauge reads above 55 percent.

[DHopkins]

Here's what I do. I keep the instrument in its case along with a Herco guitar humidifier and a $4.00 Petco Imagitarium Humidity Gauge when not playing. I remove the Herco humidifier from the case if the humidity gauge reads above 55 percent.

That'll work.

[Roger Adams]

In case humidifiers are a pain, and I can never remember to check them often enough. I use them when I travel, but at home I use an in-room humidifier in my music room. I have no rug rats running about anymore, so I never put any instrument that I use on a regular basis in a case. I live in the high Southwest, and my music room stays at about 40% year round. I have had very good results with Vornado products. They are quiet and easy to maintain.

As an aside, when I was a child, I remember my father putting a piece of potato in his guitar case. So, you could go "Old School!"

[allenhopkins]

1. If you use an in-case humidifier that requires periodic refills, it makes sense to use distilled water ($1.39/gallon at my supermarket). The minerals in tap water accumulate in the humidifier as successive fillings evaporate to maintain in-case humidity. Eventually the accumulated minerals impair the capacity of the humidifier to do its job. I have been told this by two separate instrument repair persons, and it seems reasonable.

2. As to keeping or not keeping an instrument in the case, it's an individual choice, but I've had enough knocks and dings (including rocking my rocking chair onto a Martin Style 0 ukulele, a low point in my instrument-care history), to make me a pretty strong advocate of putting my instruments back in the cases when not in use. If the 30-second delay in opening the case and taking the instrument out is deterring a person from playing it, I have to question that person's commitment to playing at that particular time.

And it is easier to maintain a particular level of humidity in a smaller enclosure -- a case -- than in a larger one -- a room, or a whole house. "Whole house" humidification raises the question of humidity levels in different parts of the house; we all know that temperatures vary from room to room, and temperature and relative humidity are, of course, closely linked. I keep all my instruments in my basement, the most humid area of my house, when not in use.

I would also say that while it's good to be aware of the possible damage caused by overly high or (especially) low humidity, it's not necessary to get overly paranoid about it. Thousands and thousands of instruments have survived for centuries without "proper" care; not that I'm advocating it, just saying that we shouldn't be afraid that couple days at 35% humidity is going to irreparably damage every mandolin. Honestly, I'd guess that the chances of damage from not putting the mandolin back in its case, significantly exceed the chances of damage from not closely monitoring its environmental humidity on a daily basis.

[sblock]

A couple of comments :
I have no idea of why folks advise anyone to always keep an instrument in a case whenever not in use... I suppose that it is indeed the most protective way to have an instrument anywhere.... saving it from getting knocked about going by, or dropping something on it. Other than that, it would have no real difference given anything to do with humidity. Many folks, more educated than I, have informed me that hour by hour, day by day, fluctuations in humidity, even in the extremes, is unlikely to affect your instrument. It is the longer term presence of high or low humidity that can cause damage.

...

Duh... Because it's very good advice! It tends to protect the instrument better, on average, than leaving it sitting out on a stand or hung up on a wall, where it's vulnerable. For example, I once had a cleaning person knock my mandolin off the stand while vacuuming, damaging it. Visitors, children, and pets can do the same. Unless you keep your instruments in a room that's off-limits to anyone but yourself, you're just asking for trouble in the long run. An instrument kept inside a protective case is simply safer, statistically speaking. Hard to argue with that logic.

You are absolutely correct to point out that humidity variations are a day-by-day thing (or even a weekly thing), not an hourly thing. It you live in a dry area, or have a cold winter, and place a humidifier inside your case, you can protect your instrument further that way. Storing an instrument inside a humidified case is, hands-down, the easiest way to protect it against variations in moisture. Yes, you can always humidify the entire house, instead, as others have discussed, but this more expensive and harder to accomplish.

And yes, it's certainly possible to over-humidify, although under-humidification is the usual problem. If you live in the moist tropics, for example, during the rainy season. And yes, you can even over-humidify an instrument inside the case, but that's pretty rare and much harder to do! But as you discovered, the blush on the finish was reversible, and you did not seem to do any permanent damage.

In my opinion, if you need your instrument to be out of its case all the time to serve as some kind of enticement to play it more regularly, then I would tend to question your motivation. As for me, I can't wait to remove mine from its case for playing!

Here's one suggestion: buy a much more expensive mandolin that sounds simply fantastic! You'll want to protect this major investment, so you won't DARE to leave it out and exposed, unless necessary. Similarly, you will want to make sure the humidity is right. And because it sounds so darned great, you will want to take it out of its case to play it more regularly, and won't need to see it on a stand, as some kind of enticement!