Playing to a song

[Drew Barton]

I have not made myself look like a completely incompetent know-nothing blowhard for 5 or 6 minutes...lets fix that.

Many instruments, people say to learn it they "listen to a song and play along with it" or words to that effect. I have to admit it mystifies me what is meant by this.

Are you doing the part someone is doing in the song? riffing over it?

It confuses me a great deal. I know many times I will run a rhythm loop when I want to play some scales and have usually a 12 bar blues pattern for simplicity, but there I am trying to fill the missing holes. How does it sound jumping 1-6 over the chord change? Can I hold a note 2 measures, then launch a 16th not assault on the ears of unlucky passers-by, etc.

But playing to an established song...all the parts theoretically are filled. I am not sure I comprehend what is meant by this or how to do it.

Even to me it sounds like a stupid question but for me it is a real one...

thoughts?

[CES]

When I do this I’m either getting my rhythm rock solid (like playing with a metronome but more fun, less annoying) or working out solos to make sure my timing and placement are correct. I’ll occasionally try to improvise solos, but, usually I play with recordings to make sure my parts are dialed in so I can help the members of our youth praise band out in our very limited practice time rather than having to work through my own issues at rehearsal...

[Tom Wright]

As described above, multiple ways to do this.

It's a good thing to learn the actual notes from a recorded song and work in playing them along with the recording---and this can be not only any mandolin parts but a violin riff or the vocal melody.

Also excellent exercise to develop your own simplification/arrangement of the song and play along.

I like playing along with the unexpected songs queued up by the radio station. For this, you partially ignore the details while trying to play along with the chords and groove. Good exercise for ear training, and I get new ideas for both riffs and songs to learn. It's like being at a jam session where you don't really know the song but so many people are chunking away you can tinkle along and safely try stuff.

[Frankdolin]

When learning from "playing with" a recording, which is mostly how I learn you have the time and ability to play or practice "all" parts of a piece. You can learn the melody, the most important, chords, rhythm, and arrangement.Your also able to work on specific parts at your own pace.

[Randi Gormley]

I guess the most stripped down explanation is to simply play the melody along with the melody in the recording, trying to get the rhythm, pacing and correct notes. My-husband-the-guitar-player will listen to a recording of some fiddle tune and then try different chords behind it (now this is ITM we're talking here, not sophisticated five-part harmony with vocals and solo bits). And if it's me, I try to get the pulse right because ITM is all about group playing and small differences aren't a thing unless you're way off base.

[UsuallyPickin]

Well .... Establish the key , lift the chord progression , learn the melody, add fill, then improvise on the melody to form a break. Easier said than done I am well aware.That is the order I work in when playing a song I am not familiar with. Melodies can be syncopated or influenced by adding or changing a few tones. When playing live, with witnesses", I keep it simple and try not to play too much. Alone at the house I am free to make egregious blunders and occasionally discover something cool. Think of it as a conversation where your don't want to interrupt but have a valid point to add. Paly on! R/

[bigskygirl]

When I come across a song/tune I want to learn I listen to it until I have the general melody, timing, tempo, dynamics, etc...until I find my self humming/singing it. Then I begin work on chords...good practice to figure out the key, I generally learn the break as note for note as possible and just play play along with it. Then the fun starts...

I work on playing in a key friendly to my voice (if it’s not already) which of course requires figuring out the break again adding my own touches...I don’t want to just copy what someone else did I make it mine. By then I’ve loaded the chord progression into an app and play along...it can take anywhere from a few hours to days or even week depending on tune/my mood/etc and I rarely return to playing along with the original recording but when I listen to it I see how much/little I have changed it.

Last night I did this with Big Sandy River, I have a basic version I play but went to YT and heard a few I liked, I learned the break then made it mine, now I have at least 3 variations and I spent a good hour or so just noodling over the E chords and landing on an A...good times...

[Drew Barton]

appreciate the responses. Parsing them, it seems mostly people are recreating what is there to train ears if I interpret it correctly?

[Denny Gies]

I do the same as CES. Put on a CD I want to learn, get tuned, figure out the key, and just play along.....rhythm when there's no mandolin solo and then trying to duplicate the mando solo. It has helped me a great deal.

[Bunnyf]

Right now, as a beginner, I listen to random songs and pick along as a kind of ear training. I figure the key, then noodle around the pentatonic scale, finding the melody notes.

[pops1]

I like to work with the singer, playing around the pauses. I will play some while they are singing, depending on the song, but get the feel, but don't over play while someone is singing. I hear people playing the melody the whole time while the singer is singing, but you will never be with the singer as they will incorporate feelings into the song and they change constantly. There may be times when I don't play for several seconds waiting on the singer. At home I can work on the lead more, live I will wait until an opening for a lead.

[John Flynn]

Here is my take: Having the tune in your head is key to backing a song. Playing along with a song is good, singing along with it is better, even if you are not a singer and don't plan to sing in performance. It helps you learn the melody, any harmonies, exactly where the chords change and just the general feel of the song and the arrangement, where it's going and what it's trying to convey musically to support the lyrics. If you don't have this, you aren't backing that song, you are just generically playing in the background.

Next, I think it is very important to know the melody and the chord changes in detail. Then, it is good to know the harmony, or come up with a harmony. On the mandolin, it leads you to double stops, which are great. Finally, you can arrange your mandolin part based on the context. What are you trying to achieve? I play at church, so I'm usually trying to support the congregation singing the melody. So I play a lot of melody, with tremolo, so they have solid notes to go by. Sometimes we will have a cantor who has trouble hitting a high note. When that happens, I'm on that note just slightly before the singer needs to be there and she can pick up on it.

If I were just backing good singers on a tune, first I would try not to step on them and only do fills when they pause, leading from where the melody left off, back to where it's going to start again. If I have a solo break, I would improvise off of the melody and lead back into the vocals.

I recently saw a great YouTube video by mandolinist Zack Borden where he talks about the importance of having the tune and arrangement in your head for a very specific reason I had not previously thought of: To know how much time you have. No matter how good, or even bad, your fills and solos are, they sound the best if they end well and end with just the right timing. He says that if you don't have any better solution, time hitting the 7th of the scale a beat before you need to end and then resolve to the root on that last beat. But you have to have the tune solidly in your head to do that.

[Bunnyf]

Funny I just watched that same video last night and found it very illuminating. I went to a jam this morning and especially used that little tip about when you are noodling and need to bring the phrase to an end but are kinda far from the tonic; use that 1/2 step note just before you go to the tonic to ease the jarring jump. It's a super useful tip and made a big difference.

[MikeZito]

Establish the key , lift the chord progression . . . then improvise on the melody to form a break.

I am pretty much on the same page as UP; the key and chords are (obviously) essential - but since I do not have the talent or inclination to learn anybody else's parts or solos, I simply make up my own arrangements, once I know the basics. Granted this will get me nowhere if somebody expects me to play note-for-note 'like the record' - but I have been very lucky over the past 30 years to have never been in a band where anyone expected me to do that . . . I always had free range to play what I felt - and that is how I personally get the most enjoyment out of music - being myself and not trying to copy anyone else.

[Mandoplumb]

I never try to learn a tune note for note. Why should I? Somebodies already done that. Oh sometime a little riff I will work on note for note then I try to change the timing or the phrasing or maybe a note or two, anything to make it mine.my stuff may not be the same as Duffy's or Monroe's but it's mine.

[fatt-dad]

The end game's the same - to, "Sing" the instrument. That's how I see it!

If you sing along to music - on the radio, in your head, in the car - there's no hardware, no musical score. It's straight from neurons to the air! Can you do that on the mandolin? Cause, if you can, you're there!

From last year's mantra - "On the journey to excellence, enjoy mediocrity!"

I remain on the journey!

f-d

[Explorer]

I recently tossed on a recording of the old Doobie Brothers hits, playing along with the guitar chording and melodic work.

To me, playing along with something means learning the various parts so I can then use the same ideas down the road.

[MikeZito]

I recently tossed on a recording of the old Doobie Brothers hits, playing along with the guitar chording and melodic work.

To me, playing along with something means learning the various parts so I can then use the same ideas down the road.

Tom Johnston of the Doobie Brothers is one of my biggest music idols. In my early days of playing guitar, I played (or at least attempted to play) LOTS of his stuff . . . no try to COPY any of it, but get down his 'feel'. A few years after I stared playing, I was playing bass in a rock band, and whenever they wanted to do try doing a Doobie Brothers song, they would hand the guitar to me. That in itself was not bad - but one day I was fooling around with some co-workers (who didn't know that I was a Tom Johnston/Doobies fanatic) and I was playing the 'Hill Street Blues' theme on the guitar. One of the guys looked at me and said, "It sounds like 'Hill Street Blues' played by the Doobie Brothers". Right then, I knew that I had to find my own 'voice' on the guitar, and not become just 'the guy who plays like the Doobie Brothers'.

Lesson learned.

[UsuallyPickin]

Johnny Gimble , one of my favorite fiddlers said " If you play like somebody else who is going to play like you ? ". R/

[Frankdolin]

I agree with the assertion that a song or riff can be played or performed in your own style. I also strongly believe that any song should be learned and remembered as it was written, otherwise it's really not "learned" at all.

[Mandoplumb]

I agree with the assertion that a song or riff can be played or performed in your own style. I also strongly believe that any song should be learned and remembered as it was written, otherwise it's really not "learned" at all.

I have always thoought every effort should be made to work off the original when learning a cover of a song. So many people work off a later version especially in folk and bluegrass where the original may have been recorded 50 or 100 years ago. If you don't go back to the original you are appling your thoughts to someone else's application, and the song can become totally removed from the original, but I don't see the advantage of trying to copy someone's recording exactly. Make it your own.